More in common than you think…
Over 70% of Palestinians in the West Bank opposed unity with Jordan, compared to 60 per cent in Gaza, according to the report from the Nablus-based centre
When will people stop talking about the “Jordan Option”?
I think we’ve gotten to a point where it can be classified as not being an option at all.
1. Since when, in the middle east, political resolutions occur according to citizens wish? Were their (west bank) openions taken when they found themselves part of Jordan before 1967? If it is left to the people’ wish, Iraq will be three states, Lebanon will be four states …etc.
2. If the same people who contributed in this poll were given assurance that every one in the new united state will be treated equally and they will not be 2nd class citizens, will the result be the same as published?
3. What is the definition of the “Jordan option”? Where is this document? I have never read an official document called the “Jordan Option”? Is it “transferring west bank Palestinians to Jordan? Is it “transferring” Palestinians from Lebanon and Syria to Jordan? Is it giving Ghazzawi Palestinians who are living in Jordan the Jordanian nationality? or as you mentioned above it is the re-unity of the west bank and Jordan after ending the Israeli occupation and removing the settlement.
4. I would like to ask about refugees living in Jordanian camps such as Baq3a and We7dat since I’m living abroad all my life. What is there status? Do they possess Jordanian nationality? or it is travelling document such as Libanese and Syrian camps? because if they have the nationality, then there is no problem, but if not, is giving them the Jordanian natioanlity part of the “Jordan option”?
5. Why all unity stories in the west such as United States and European Union succeed while they fail in the middle east? knowing that we were united for hundreds of years? I beleive that our nation in the middle east are still in need to grow up and think seriously about their mysrey status.
Nas, indeed. At some point, people in the West ought to realize that Palestine is not Jordan. Trying to make Jordan the new Palestine is like trying to make Palestine the new Israel. Neither is a land without a people. And, for those families not from the West Bank, how exactly, would this help them? How do you deal with the illegal settlements? There is so much that is simply not practical in such talk. Give it up already…
Oh, and Mahmoud, making a Palestianian a citizen of Jordan might solve one problem and create 20 others. Those in Baq3a live in cinder block homes with corrugated tin roofs held on bricks on defiance. This is their daily reminder that they are not home and won’t build a “real” house until they are. You think giving them a passport is going to change their reality? The results of that poll would be quite interesting indeed…
And unity in the West is often bought at a very high price. Consider the American revolution… It wasn’t easy holding the United States united and that was without today’s sophisticated killing machines…
Naseem, Since when did people in this part of the world had a say in their political and economic lifes?
And let me ask you this: why would any sane person think that israel will allow palastenian to go back? I mean it just puzzles me that there are still people out there who think this would ever happen! So the option is not off the table, and it is sad that it reached a point where people-actual people- are a card in the “negotiating” process.
I would like to add one more thing. The request for “Independent Palestinian State”, in my openion, is the result of contious brain wash practiced by PLO through the past and current period because the leaders of PLO will be the leaders of the claimed state. What Palestians want, and I’m one of them, is to end the Israeli occupation by any mean and to remove the settlements. What will be the form of the freed land’s political system is the last of their concerns. Logically, If any WEst Bank Palestinian with common sense, is given the option to be ruled by fighting and corrubted organisations or tby the more stabled and secured hashimte regime, he will choose the latter. In fact, I’m hoping to see further unity with Syria and Lebanon. This will end most of our problems and create stronger state. Call me a dreamer, but this is the right path to the future. You just have to free your minds from tribal and local effects and think big. One way to comprehend that is by understanding throughly the Islamic religion and history.
Mahmoud …
5) Because Palestine is not an independent state so even the mere talk about a confederacy with Jordan will most definitely harm if not completely diminish Palestine being independent – ever.
As everything in Jordan is ” for sale ” , these days . Then the question is not if , but how much ? .
You will nationalize the refugees , you will give whatever the new palestine needs , all , even a share in the Kingdom …. Just bring the cash .
The prostitute is defined , the question is the dollar price .
Human rights come first and foremost. If Palestinians will be treated equally and given full rights they would be stupid to reject this option, especially considering the rights that they’re given at this moment.
Palestinians have been fighting for their rights and for their independence for how many years now? the daily struggles, the disposition, the uprooting of trees, the home demolition, the imprisonment …the humiliation … not so that in the end they can be part of ‘the Jordan options.’
I know the Jordan option might not be their preferred solution. But, given their daily struggles and the status quo of the situation, one needs to be realistic. One thing is better than another. Personally, I am all for a one state solution Israel + Palestine. A two state solution is becoming less and less feasible as the Israeli’s are occupying more and more land. And the Palestinian territories are not even connected to each other.
Yes, and that’s exactly why you have 70% who reject the ‘jordan option’ … they value their struggle for independence and freedom too much to concede to something that will ‘jeopardize’ Palestine ever being independent
any stats regarding jordanians opinion of the JO?
Now, you must agree that our friend Iman is a typical example of the “brain washing” of the PLO litrature. I bet that she is also in her 20s or early 30s. PLO succeeded through the years to twist the ideology of the struggle from being for freeing an Arabic / Islamic land from foreign occupation that makes it the duty of all Arabic and Islamic nations to fight back into a struggle for an idependent state that makes it the duty of the Palestinians only to fight!!!
I bet that Iman does not live in the west bank, thus does not realize the disappointment of the regular Palestinians from their leaders who came from the different organisations and always in dispute. Who wants a handicapped state that has no water front and has only two borders, one of them is with their enemy Israel??? I’m talking here about West Bank. I say to all my Palestinian and East Jordanian brothers, free you selves from the stinky localism and free your minds from brain washing.
Can not agree more with mahmoud jarrar.
From all the people I know there in the west bank, almost everyone is looking forward for the union with Jordan.
I wonder what credibility this research center in nablus has? the rejecting group of the Jordanian option are the ones benefiting personally from PLO or that sort of power they attained over there. Just go to the King Hussien bridge and ask people what do they think?
Many militias roam the west bank under the cover of liberation and perform organized crime. Those know that Jordan is discipline and security.
People remember the 1950-1967 phase. Equality and openness was the label. The Jordanian state respected all of its citizens though it was hard economic times all across.
Pan-Arab wise, a step in the right direction. Economic wise
The Hashemites are the Kings of all Arabs. When the revolt took place a decade ago it was to institute that and it was supported by the people. The occupation and the establishment of Israel are what changed the realities.
People there or many here as well, do not understand exactly why Jordan insists on establishing the Palestinian state before any redefinition of the Jordanian-Palestinian relationship.
I think its wise from the Jordanian part, so that Jordan would not appear as a new occupier as many Arabs attempted before to label Jordan as attempting to occupy Palestine. (since the 1940s as part of defying the Hashemite rule when no other Arab ruler enjoyed the legitimacy they had).
In addition, a proper economic solution will be sought out. No one wants an extended country with even harder realities than the ones faced today.
Many phases in that direction will take place I think, hoping its done rationally so no fireback occur.
a real option or not, i’m personally in favor for such a unity! that doesn’t mean Jordan will seize to exist or that Palestine will replace Jordan, it means we’ll have a big independent state where Palestinians and Jordanians continue to co-live but this time as citizens of something larger than the two countries.
maybe i’m just an annoying idealist, but i actually think it’s pretty exciting. if only it was real…
Please view my points below as opinions derived from facts and not attempts to insult anyone.
1- 70 and 60% ??!! I’m shocked at these very low %s!
2- Why would the Palestinians want to go back to the hegemony of the same rule that gave them away in the first place? That would be preposterous! (Read ‘A peace to end all peace’ by D. Fromkin)
3- Between 50 and 67 The Jordanian government treated everyone equally because the “west bank” was the life-line of the “Kingdom” ( Read the Time magazine online archives from 1967 – right after the 67 war an interview with King Hussein God rest his soul)
4- Shaden, realistically if Jordan and Palestine “unite” it is demographically logical that the “Jordanian Identity” as it was shaped since black sep. would be in jeopardy to put it mildly. The real question is would the Jordanians, Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis, Gulfians want to cease to be what their current passports say they are and want to become Arab nationals? Under the current political climate I think its impossible. Maybe in a few dozen decades.
5- Those of you who talk about the struggle and how the big, bad PLO brainwashed people to believe that they are Palestinians, there never was, is and never will be a struggle without the PLO. Enough with the reverse psychology antics.
Abu Mansoor agrees with Markus .
Jordan and Palestine Together .
Bassem Awadallah + SAeb Erekat + Livni .
Ahmad said:
“The Hashemites are the Kings of all Arabs. When the revolt took place a decade ago it was to institute that and it was supported by the people.”
now you all probably think im gona comment on the kings of all arabs part .. but im not .. ill leave that to someone else .. i just wanted to point out that the revolt did not take place in the 90s hahahaha
a decade equals ten years ya ahmad 😉
mahmoud jarrar said:
“PLO succeeded through the years to twist the ideology of the struggle from being for freeing an Arabic / Islamic land from foreign occupation that makes it the duty of all Arabic and Islamic nations to fight back into a struggle for an idependent state that makes it the duty of the Palestinians only to fight!!!”
so now anyone who wants palestine to be free and independent is brainwashed by the plo .. does that include hamas?
also .. you made me laugh when you talked about the duty of all arabic and islamic nations to fight back .. as if these arabic and islamic nations are just itching to fight but its the plo who is preventing them .. n—a please!
And I am certain Mahmoud does not have a clue as to what he is talking.
Funny. All the people I know in the west bank are not looking forward to that
then a century it is 🙂
Was it really worth it to go through a comment ?!
the system that sold them first?
the archives of the 1948 or the 1967 say something else…
Jordan’s system managed to preserve Al-Lid and Al-Ramlah between May and July of 1948 when the truce was violated on the Egyptian border and ended in the occupied territories of 1948 that we know today.
The Israeli government archives show that when abdulnasser closed the terran gates as a declaration of war and each of Israel and Egypt were taking orders from USA and USSR not to start the war, Dayan was dying for a cabinet approval to start the attck on each of Egypt and Syria before King Hussien joins them in declaring the war as a result of the continous pressure from the arab system and the street pulse as well. Jordan decided to get involved and agreed that the full army would be under the egyptian command, who had anything but a plan.
The 1973 was another failure almost as 1967 but with lower costs, the king decided not to get involved and had all the reasons to think that he would be paying the higher price again.
The PLO resembles the start of the revolt and many good positions during the struggle.. but, was mostly captivated by totalitarians who resembled many failures just as most of the arab ruling systems. It got lost many times in side and non related conflicts, and used the “holy war” to gain cover. Many good attacks were organized by the militias apart from the PLO system not to mention that the PLO structure was a state like structure but had nothing to do for the people.
If the west bank was that vital to Jordan, how does it make sense that Jordan gave it up by choice?
And yes the revolt gained momentum and claiming the hashemites as kings. Many civil documents during the late 19th century and early 20th show that the main networking was at al-hajj season when people met in mecca and managed to get attention to a certain topic. Sharif Hussien paid 25 thousand gold dinars in 1912 to repair al-aqsa after the great earthquake. The way King Faisal for example was recieved at either Haifa, Amman, Damascus, or Baghdad only confirms public acceptance.
The world is full with documents, books, and many materials that will have different perspectives. You buy the story you find most solid in a very corrupt situation as this one. I always fear when the ones who govern are the ones who shout and tend to label others.
ahmad .. google “king faisal weizmann” .. also google “sharif ali mcmahon” .. if that doesnt change ur mind nothing will ..
p.s. re: “Was it really worth it to go through a comment ?!”
it was just my indirect way of poking fun at ur “kings of all arabs” comment ..
It seems to be about pride and honor – the country has been stepped on for the last time and its people just won’t be shuffled around any more.
Funny how the world works. You walk in someone’s house, kill them, take over, start taking over their neighbors’ houses one by one, then a different neighborhood starts giving the few people that are left “options” like they’re the strangers.
lol
wow.
if that is true, why was he dismissed from Syria by the french?
there is no if .. it is true 🙂
theres even a photo of the two together ..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal-Weizmann_Agreement
anyway it all worked out for him .. the british made him king of iraq .. but we are digressing so since its not the topic of the thread i will stop here so as not to sidetrack it any further.
This is politics, it can not be black and white. The clause written on that document if it was genuine in the first place makes it a secular double ethnic state that many started to call for today.
two big questions remain unanswered in that dialogue: why was he dismissed from Syria? How do you explain people support in all corners of syria and iraq at a time where people where rioting against the division agreements and establishment of Israel? what about sharif hussien trial in cyprus when all the english turned thier backs to him?
I do not think we shifted from the main topic, as the status today relates to what happened before.
dude .. like i said in my earlier reply “if that doesnt change ur mind nothing will” .. and since u are still attempting to justify and defend it seems that nothing will ..
im a palestinian and i reject the jordanian option .. thats my final say in this topic .. peace
I hope so – but when you think it’s getting forgotten, it comes back:
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/mesh/2008/10/israel_palestinians_trilateral_scenario/#comment-1091
This is MESH’s eid card to you Naseem 🙂
muhammad: thanks for the card!
I firmly believe that the jordanian option is the more feasible and best for the palestinians,afterall why should the palestinians embrace an almost impossible goal,that is as their leadership call it “independent palestinian state”. The arab nation has already twenty two independent states,why they need to create the 23rd state?.Now,and if the palestinians are skeptical about the jordanian regime and feel that they suffered anddwrigtlysoduring the jordanian domination during the period 1953-1967,they can through democratic and peaceful means pursue their aspirations and achieve equal status with their eastern jordanian brothers through the jordanian option,afterall,the palestinians are the arab nation who is always calling for arab unity.