Iraqi versus Iraqi. Palestinian versus Palestinian. Lebanese versus Palestinian militants. To say nothing of…
Arab unity seems to be a pipe dream more and more these days. On the political level it’s been dead and buried for quite some time but perhaps the social level is what I find more disturbing. The language and tone of the everyday person has seemed to change when referring to a fellow Arab. People are looking for the small cracks of differences between us to drive a wedge into.
The region is becoming too unpredictable, even (if not especially) for its residents.
Where do we go from here?
I honestly don’t know.
we go nowhere Nas
Nas, I feel with you, honestly our status right now is depressing. But I really believe in bringing up the facts, its part of the solution, after all we need a solution, we cant sulk on this situation. You said Lebanese vs Palestinain militia, right now there is no such conflict, , more specifically, Fath LA Islam is not a Palestinian militia, everyone out there knows that and its clear. See when we are not careful with such things, conflicts arise, we cant mix these things up even if it is un-intentional.
“Fath LA Islam is not a Palestinian militia”
as far as i know they are a palestinian splinter group (from fatah al-intifada) but in any case i’m speaking of the general policy taken by the lebanese cabinet as opposed to a specific group
…hence my choice of words 😉
The greatest trick any general can achieve is having your enemy fight itself(I think from the Art of war). It appears that a great puppeteer is capturing the lights these days…
Isn’t is just pathetic? I think most of us have reached the stage where we don’t even want to know what is going on anymore. People in the region are just so fed up with all this in-fighting and crazy nonsense to care anymore. I know alot of people, me included , who try not to even watch the news. Thoughts of Arab unity and all that talk resemles one living in fantasy land. We are just sick of it all.
I say Fath Al Islam is a Saudi group, or maybe a group from Malawi, they are absolutly not a Palestinain group. With all due respect to you, your information is wrong and you need to look into it further. Trying to blame the palestinians for this debacle is another step on the path of arab decay, that is, unless you agree to calling Al zarqawi’s group Jordanian. if so then I can understand the logic behind calling fath al islam Palestinian, and you can add to your list: jordanian terrorists blowing up jordanian cities, then we would be consistant.
Markus: oh please! dont turn this into a “you’re blaming palestinians for everything”, we’re calling a spade a spade here. the group itself is has palestinian members, is based in palestinian refugee camps and is led by a palestinian. And yes, it also has members from lebanon, yemen the gulf and syria; and is said to be funded by the latter. so spare me the whole dont blame palestinians bit. i was refering to broader policy that the lebanese cabinet is engaging in. You’re the one who brought up a specific group.
and if it makes you feel better, Shaker al-Absi has jordanian citizenship and has been charged in absentia for almost 5 years.
ironically, your comments are the personification of what my post was about.
straight to hell… seems like a major conflict in the region is imminent – hopefully all the fundamentalists will eradicate each other!
I agree with your post, this is going crazy.
Hamas vs Fatah
Fatah don’t want to go along and let Hamas the political things even if Hamas won the vote (60%).
LebaneseArmy vs Fateh El Islam
IF LebaneseArmy take any weapon or money from the American for the purpose of killing FatehElIslam, then they can go to hell. LebaneseArmy is controlled by the christian.
Iraqi vs Iraqi
One group is with the American/West, and the other group don’t want them, because they know about there master plan, they want to control the country (west).
Turkey vs Kurdistan
I know many of them hate each other, I don’t understand why Turkey don’t give them a land, if they are Muslim as they are, why not?
CNN & New Yorker – Bush Planned Lebanon War Months BeforePlease lets think before throw words in the air,Read Seymour hersh and his investigative work in the New Yorker.
I think the our worst enemies would be our thinking, our land greed and our inevitable will to deteriorate other people’s identities in order for us to stand out.
Ya khasarett el 3arab
3omorna ma ra7 nseer ishi
and as long as there’s outsiders in this whole thing
we’ll be going nowhere…..
Ok Nas ,,who instigated this infighting in Iraq??and when did it start,when I was in Jordan last year I interviewed both Sunni and Shia Iraqis and they all told me that this fighting was instigated purposely or unpurposely by the Americans.
Make no mistake about it,there is no Palestinian civil war ,there is a war being waged against Palestinians for half centuary,note,The Dahlan Gangs are being financed by the American as we speak.
Again Nas you are making a big mistake when you said that they are off shoot of fathh El intifada,not a single militant of fath El islam is Palestanian.
Again read Seymour Hersh on this subject and who financed those groupies.
alurdunialhurr: thank you for opening my eyes to the reality i was previously blind to.
you are absolutely right. there are no arabs killing each other. it is all one giant operation orchestrated by the americans and the israelis and possibly mickey mouse.
and if they were able to fool me of all people then the conspiracy must be massive.
Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh spills the secrets of the Iraq quagmire and the war on terrorA must read, if you want to understand what is going on.
I don’t see any difference between what nationalism they are, I see Lebanese army attack with what they have. hey made a war when they attack with tanks and rockets, this is madness.
All the commanders for the Lebanese army is chritian, you never know which one of them work for the American goverment. They don’t care about what’s happning in the refuges camp.
If they continue to attack, the Fateh el Islam can only protect them self by responding in a attack.
Hizbollah did not say much about these attacks only by doing peace and settle things down which is the best thing to do.
A correction, mickey mouse hates the jews, so he will be working with us, why do you think they chose mickey as farfour? Smart SOBs!!
Seymour Hersh: “We’ve Been Taken Over by a Cult”
HAHAHA I hate laughing at such sad subjects but yeah Naseem, I think you got it right on this time. We should fight farfour’s evil twin Mickey Mouse!!! The situation is even worse reading the comments, I just read the figures that the whole Arab world produces a fraction of what Turkish writers translate and write. With so much ignorance and narrow sightedness in the Arab world, we might as well blame Israeli aliens living on Mars for all our troubles,or ………. Mickey
You know what it is…it’s the fault of the Jews and the West. 😛
I hope this doesn’t offend anyone, but Nas brings up a really important question. Who is an Arab? Is it only people whose ancestors originated in the Arabian peninsula, or does it include people of other tribes in the mashreq and the maghreb whose cultures blended with Arab culture over the past millennium and a half? It seems to me that there is such diversity of culture and spoken language between and even within Arab countries that “Arab unity” is an impossible goal even before you get to political, religious, or natural resource issues that can really divide people.
“You know what it isÃ¢â‚¬Â¦itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s the fault of the Jews and the West.Dave,,your are so smart and original man ,what the American army is doing in Iraq,did they invade Iraq for picnic and site seeing or maybe to talk a walk on the Euphrates River of maybe have Falafel Sandwiches or because of the so called, the weapons of mass destruction, that Saddam had,or maybe for something called black gold.
And yes Nas I do recognize that we have lots of problems ,i never denied that,but you really have to bring the record of the so called Arab government dictatorial rule such as human right abuses, manipulation of elections torture ,arbitrary arrest and of course massive corruption schemes and scandals , and you have to keep in mind that those government heads are supported and financed the by CIA
And Ryan W Sadi ,well why don’t you start writing a book, instead of blaming the most suppressed and subjugated population in the entire world.
i’m on board with all that…but this doesn’t give any group of people a free pass to fight each other. all the aforementioned reasons you gave play a fairly small if not practically insignificant role when all out civil war breaks out.
the fact that a people are subjugated and occupied and oppressed…is all the more reason for them to be united rather than increasingly divided.
How are you going to unite the people when their governments are constantly brain washing them ,such as the racist slogan we have in Jordan,like “Jordan first” or “we are all for Jordan”,and when somebody criticised the Head of State,atomatically will guarantee him or her a jail sentence with lots of torture and humilations.
human right abuses, manipulation of elections torture ,arbitrary arrest and of course massive corruption schemes and scandals ,and i might to my previous comment murdering political prisoners ,are to your interpretation are insignificant ,and to fight back or to use light weight violence ,and please don’t talk me wrong,I will never condone or encourage such tactics,but I understand it at least,but you always think that Arabs and muslims are the only people who use light wight violence,and when comparing with State violence, which is far more massive , destructive and illegal ,all that in your world of interpretation are insignificant??.
“calling a spade a spade ”
Nas, many Blacks consider this a slur in the US. Please try to avoid it if you can. It’s origins are not, but it has devolved into a slur over the years. it’s rather amazing how many continue to use it. I guess Blacks just got tired of fighting racism.
Thanks for the encouragement, maybe I will write a book one day.
I wonder what most of the Arab societies would do if they had the utter freedom you talk about. I think the scenario will go a bit like this:
Given that we have free elections, the mostly illiterate poor will vote en mass for people who want to run a country with their idea of Islam, which is very exclusive to other parties thus undermining the democracy that brought them to power.
You have a problem with Jordan first and you think it is racist? I think you are one of those ignorant people I am talking about.
Jordan first, no matter what the intentions behind them were could have been a turning point for Jordanian society that saw itself as divided among Belgiki (palestinian origin) and Jordanian. We would all unite under the banner and be considered Jordanians and the old way of thinking could have been thrown out the window. Jordanians of Palestinian origin do need to show allegiance to Jordan since they are carriers of the passport and have enjoyed the same rights under the law as those you consider as of Jordanian decent.I am a Jordanian of Palestinian decent myself, not a Palestinian who carries a Jordanian passport. If you don’t like that, then please apply for the Palestinian passport and leave Jordan alone. I am not neglecting the problems that exist but please look at Palestinian refugees in every other Arab country and compare the situations since you are so diligent in your research. Slogan are what we make of it, if people want to be negative about everything then we will go nowhere.
Arabs have been subjugated by others because we have allowed them to, pure and simple. If you keep throwing your garbage in you own house and do not clean up, do not be surprised that you get sick. Arabs had their day in history and we are currently in a slump, we will rise again hopefully. This is history repeating itself as it did for other cultures. If we keep blaming other people we will remain as we are,ignorant and utterly helpless. Blaming 20 million Jews (who are people of the book and must be respected in Islam) for the troubles of over 300 million Arabs (neglecting the Arab diaspora) who control a large fraction of the worlds oil and have unimaginable amounts of money is………. ridiculous. We still had until the last decade “Imams” declaring that considering the world a sphere is blasphemous, or that planes would fly into the face of God. This gives you an idea of the mind set we are still in. We have Palestinians shooting Palestinian by the dozens….should I go on?
Zionists, by the way, use the statement “self hater” for Jews who argue against Israel and its policies. Personally in the same context, I would love be called a self hater regarding our current Arab and Muslim situation.
W Sadi ,,Before I begin ,I would like to tell you,if you decide to write a book which I daut you could do that,please don’t bash Arabs and Moslems,like you are doing right now,and as you know ,to bash ad degrade Arab and Muslim culture is the trend for pathetic losers writers like that loser Somali women who was kicked out of Holland for lying and misrepresenting facts about her life.Having said that,I dout,you have any knowledge of the complexity that faces the Arab World and Palestrina’s in particular.
On the subject of election “free” election?? in Jordan ,that’s got to be laughable Ryan,you must be out of your mined or pretend to be or you have no clue, how many “free” election did we have in Jordan?,and how many times was the Parliament dissolved by the king?.and speaking of Parliaments in Jordan,Those pathetic Parliament losesrs,they are nothing but ,a rubber stamps,the same old corrupted elites who their only interest is filling their pocket with money,driving BMW, building themselves ugly villas and exploiting some poor srilankan or Filipinos women for $100 a month which translate to $3.30 aday. is that’s the the free electioneer are you referring to Rayn??
On the subject of “illiterate” what makes you think that you are better than them ,just because you went to English, American or any other school ,does not qualify to be “better” or “educated” to make decision about their life and how it should be run.just for reminder,it was the French “illiterate” who carried out the French revolution and changed the historical outcome of Europe.
And yes Rayan ,I have big problem with that racist and stupid Slogans of Jordan First,what makes you think that you should be first.second or third,it is this sick or rather foolish and rubbish thinking,that is only me,me ,me and more of me that Iam aginst and and sick of,and for sake of your argument, that we should be “first”,are we first in education medical care, Industrialisation, agriculture ,or in any other field?’once you achieved that then I will be the first to call for Jordan First.
you know rayan,Pathetic Hitler and Mussolini have used and raised the same racist slogan,and look what happened to them,they were thrown in history garbbage pin.
Right now ,it’s almost 3oclock in the morning and Iam really tired and its time to stop,but I will come back and dissect your argument bear with me
Thank you sir for making this personal.
please dissect my argument, or rather try to understand what I am saying then get back to me.
I might not have been very clear, my English is not as good as I would like it to be, if you any further questions about my argument I would be happy to elaborate.
By the way, as a person who lived in Jordan all his life, with family in Palestine and had the privilege to study the Middle East in the West should give me a good rounded idea of the complexities of the Arab world. I might be wrong but I have learned nothing new from you comments either.
Ok.Ryan,Iam back now
first,here is what you wrote”Arabs have been subjugated by others because we have allowed them to, pure and simple.”Ã™Å Ã˜Â§ Ã˜Â¹Ã™Å Ã™â€ Ã™Å Ã˜Â¹Ã™â€žÃ™Å Ã™Æ’ Ã™Ë†Ã˜Â¹Ã™â€žÃ™Å Ã˜Â£Ã™ÂÃ™Æ’Ã˜Â§Ã˜Â±Ã™Æ’ Ã˜Â§Ã™â€žÃ˜Â¬Ã™â€¡Ã™â€ Ã™â€¦Ã™Å Ã™â€¡
So Rayan according to twisted logic,Palestanian allowed Zionist to occupied them,steal their land and ethnically cleanse them from their historic Palestine, it’s like saying,the raped women, allowed the rapist to rap her,let me tell Rayan,you really need simple lessons in basic logic.
Here is another sentence you wrote”We have Palestinians shooting Palestinian by the dozensÃ¢â‚¬Â¦.should I go on?” Ryan make no mistake about it,there is no Palestinians civil war or Palestinians are killing each other,there is of course,a war is being waged by the Zionist,the US government and some Arab governments who want to destroy any kind of Resistance to the Zionist occupation of Palestine,and Mohammad Dahlan is one of those carrying out this collaborationist task
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I like to set the facts straight, Fath Al Islam is not a Palestinian group, anyone who says so is propogating a lie, wether intentionally or unintentionally….
Trying to get this conversation back to civility, I want to point out I am not talking about specifics, of course I am not saying that Palestinians willfully accepted occupation. The circumstance of the Arabs at the time of Israels creation and the Palestinian leadership at the time was not organized enough to repel the diplomatic assault Zionists propagated in the West that led to the recognition if Israel.
Israel got their country by organizing a strong lobby group in the U.S.
AIPAC is the reason Israel still exits today, and by their own admission, they say that if Arabs were as organized as the Zionist Jews then there was no way that they could get the essential recognition of the U.S. The Zionist organization I am talking about was at the grassroots level meaning at the civilian level and not based on one or two leader like the ones Arabs at the time relied on. At the time, Palestinians were mostly farmers being led by a handful of Land owners that made tragic political mistakes. (including scaring off Palestinian who fled after lies of Rape and child killing in Deir Yassin were propagated by the Palestinian leadership at the time) Sari Nusiebeh who worked at the official Palestinian radio station in that period admitted to this fatal mistake. Thus I am saying that circumstance of the Arabs opened the gap for Israels creation. The British and colonial influence at the time was great, but no entity could have stopped a popular uprising of the Arab masses (several British authorities attest to that), the truth is, the public uproar just wasn’t enough. Everyone was relying on the Arab armies to liberate Palestine. The Arab armies tried several times, and yet again because of lack of proper organization they failed. Egypt’s Generals at the time have admitted to that, even Jamal Abdul Nasr made tragic political and military mistakes that he admitted to. We are too passive and reliant on singular figures to save us.
I do not want to go too much into a specific history of one Arab mistake which is Palestine’s loss, but rather try to find a way out of all our troubles.
All I am suggesting that we do a review of our history and try not repeat the same mistakes. There is a leading Palestinian refugee advocate who actually lives in a camp and he pleaded with Arab masses, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!
Fateh Al-Islam is headed by a Jordanian citizen who was tried in absentia in Jordan- Shaker Al-Absi.
By this time, mainstream media has mentioned that many nationals besides Palestinians are part of this particular group, and that most Palestinian groups (even the ones regarded as extremists by the West) have distanced themselves from them. Many Palestinians in Naher Al-Bared camp have even clashed with them on previous occasions.
Markus and everyone,
The sad thing is that the palastenian issue is being used by everyone to justify their acts wether it was “terror” or terror.
Al-qaeda used it with the foreign presence in KSA to justify 9/11, now iraq is being used also, so our causes now are just justification for acts.. Maybe we should try to seperate them, but I know that people will argue the validity of my suggestion..
The fact is that Islam, palastenian cause, iraq occupation are becoming tool to justify acts, and this is really hurting all of the previous because we live in a world were image is more powerful than 1000 nukes and even more..
I agree with you, the end does not justify the means. This is not an Arab or a Muslims trait and it never should be.
Very simple Question to everyone.
If somebody invade your house,kill your family and then tell you, now you have to go away,What would you do??????
As a human being, I would fight till the death to get them out of my house and avenge them.
As a Muslim who aspires to a higher calling, I will use my patience and best efforts to negotiate a peacefull outcome that protects my dignity while minimising further loss of life from my side or the enemies. And even if I do fight back, I will do so within the norms of Islamic doctrine that is based on logic, only fight back at the ones actually perpetrating the crime and are bearing arms at the time. If I can’t do that, then I must wait patiently till I can, but never break the laws of God in the meantime to achieve my worldly desires (land and house and so on)
My personal opinion
Ah, the puppeteer theory. But who is the puppeteer?
Is it the Jews, who believe so firmly in their superiority that they must control all and delight to see others die?
But look deeper. Why would millions of Jews leave fertile Europe to live in the middle of a desert? Why was the situation so bad in Europe?
Was it the Christians, who believed so firmly in their superiority that they had to control all and delighted to see others die?
But look deeper. Why would millions of Christians turn dislike the people from whose religion their own sprung? Why so much Xenophobia in Europe?
Was it the Muslims, who believed so firmly in their superiority that they had to control all and delighted to see others die?
But look deeper. Why would millions of Turks invade Europe in the first place? Was it to undo the humiliation of the Crusades?
And so it goes, back and further back: and people who were enemies become friends, mingle and become a single nation, and form new enemies. Who is the puppeteer; who the puppet? It is an illusion. We are all human. We just have to realize it.
Our sense of identity dictates who are are. All humans are born a clear template, then manufactured identity is instilled in every child.
Am I Ammanite, am I jordanian, am I an Arab, A Sunni, A Muslim?
All i am sure of is that we are humans!
Thats why we have universal human rights, which are akin to a unified religion for sake or argument. If only they were applied properly.