As most people reading this already know, an incident took place in a recent football match between the Wehdat and Faisali clubs, where the fans of the former were seriously injured due to the intervention of Gendarmerie Forces who clashed with the fans. From the various accounts I’ve read and gathered in the past day or so, including from people who were actually there – the Faisali fans were let out of the stadium first, which is normal procedure for the losing team, in order to avoid clashes between the two groups of fans. People from outside the stadium began to throw stones and bottles in to the arena, creating chaos inside, where disgruntled fans exchanged words causing the Gendarmerie forces moving in to maintain calm, which somehow resulted in fans getting beaten, but worse, an iron fence that separates the fans from the field collapsing and trapping people as a stampede ensued, which resulted in the high number of casualties (said to be over 150), including children. Suffice to say, what happened here was very unfortunate and saddening.
Of the hundreds of matches that have taken place between these two teams, this is probably the first time (to my recollection) that something of this magnitude has happened. For the foreign reader, it should be pointed out that the Wehdat team has come to represent a demographic of mostly Jordanians of Palestinian origin, with the Faisali team representing mostly Jordanians of Trans-Jordanian roots. To what extent this representation is 100% accurate is uncertain, but it is the general perception and belief held by most Jordanians. Moreover, hooliganism is rife amongst the fans of both clubs, and more often than not, matches end with cars being destroyed, mild clashes between fans, things being thrown, and people landing themselves in jail for the night.
That said, it is utterly difficult to say almost anything about this subject without being faced with a label. That’s just the risk one takes.
Faisali and Wehdat football games are not mere football games but rather an arena where elements of honor, national identity, origin and roots all seep in. And it is as divisive as one can imagine when it comes to these elements; you are either a fan of one team or the other. In other words, you are either pro-Jordanian or pro-Palestinian; to be a member of one camp is to proclaim yourself the antagonist of the other. While this may appear downright silly in the context of greater threats (and I assure you, it most certainly is), it’s nevertheless the prevailing perception. And with that in mind, it’s incredibly difficult to offer any type of balanced commentary without being labeled as either this or that; a “with us” or “against us” mentality. It is an issue where your family name, origin and allegiances are all called in to question, which is just what the issue of Jordanian national identity needs these days. It is for these reasons that an incident like this steers the local conversation immediately into a question of origin. There is no one on the street who is not talking about this in the context of Jordanian-Palestinian identity.
Naturally, this story has me fluttered with various thoughts, and this is what I have to offer on this subject:
First, this was a football match, where, much like a protest, events are never as black and white, tasteless and oversimplified as some would have us believe. One Washington Post article seemed to boil down the equation to: Jordanian police attacked Palestinian fans; Jordanians bad, Palestinians good. This equation is perhaps reiterated to some extent locally by absurd opportunists, who, in typical fashion, will attempt to take over this issue for their own personal benefit.
But those of us with a shred of intellect know better.
We know the devil lingers in the details and even if one was physically there at the event, their eyewitness account isn’t necessarily dependable, especially when it comes to these types of incidences where chaos rules the scene. And I have a tougher time than most in casting immediate judgment and responsibility on any specific group as it is never that black and white. Those of us living in Jordan know this. To live in Jordan, is to live in the assorted shades of grayness, everyday.
I think at times like these, we search for someone to blame. Someone to bear the responsibility completely. Absolutely. Indefinitely. We blame the fans, who hurled objects. We blame the Gendarmerie Forces, who used excessive force. We blame the fathers who brought their children to such a match. We blame the police. We blame the fence that caved in. We blame the state. We blame the circumstances. We blame history. We blame the clubs, and even call for their dissolution. We blame everyone we can think of, and still, there is no resolution.
I think at times like these I am easily tempted to become angry, just like everyone else. But only because rage is so easy. So simple. So, uncomplicated.
And then I remember that while anger makes one feel better for a day or two, it does nothing to resolve the bigger picture. Some of the officers involved will probably be investigated and even held accountable for their actions in a bid to restore some public calm. And that will make one feel better for a week, it might even kill the news cycle. But again, it does nothing to resolve the bigger picture.
So what will?
If there was ever a time for the taboo chains to crumble, the chains that have long ensnared any attempts to host a national dialog over the issue of identity – this would be it. This is an issue that has been dying to see some sunlight, some attempt on a national level for a conversation to evolve, for resolution to grow in the place of divisiveness. The state needs to recognize this; our leadership needs to understand this. This issue will not go away. Not even with the establishment of a Palestinian state. This issue will continue to fester beneath the surface of social discontent in Jordan. It will continue to grow. It will continue to divide. It will continue to find new ways to erupt; new landscapes to manifest itself; in this case, a football match. It will continue to be our Achilles heel. It will continue to strike at the center of who we are. It will continue to be a volatile element in our midst, destined to disrupt, distort and destabilize – and no amount of security forces will ever be enough to restore calm. This issue, this unspoken conversation is a growing wave in the ocean that is capable of nothing but sheer destruction. It born and bred for the single purpose. And at the end of the day, it is on the state to take action and it is on our leadership to – lead. Not with speeches. Not with slogans and national campaigns. Not with Parliamentary committees. Not with empty gestures. Not with appeasement. But with genuine and honest acknowledgment, and a conversation. The acknowledgment that this issue is as pertinent to our social cohesion, to our very survival, as the issue of water is.
As a people, we need to find ways of putting aside the rage and the blame. History has shown us time and again that little good has ever come from either. We need to find compassion, we need to search for resolution. We need to evolve past the cliches of traditional stereotypes and perceptions. We need to write a new history. A new book. We need to pass on a new legacy; a new inheritance. We need to do this now more than ever.
We need to have a conversation.
And it needs to start now.
Naseem Tarawneh, Thanks for blogging such a truthful and objective perspective of the incident, yes we need this conversation more than ever. and it needs to be now. We have to stop blaming each other before it gets more complicated my broher
This problem along with the tribal violence in university campuses and between two tribes over a parliament candidate, our government mistakenly thinks that if a problem is not addressed it will eventually disappear. The article you mentioned is not the first to point out the disconnection between Jordanians and Palestinians in Jordan. This is a repeated incident and it will not be the last. I agree with you it is time for a conversation.
State identity crisis.. Security forces are no different from sport teams politically..Designed to provide “employment” to a certain segment of the population.. entitlement..protect ur “identity”..protect ur entitlements..The “other” must be subdued..State in survival mode..Paranoid..
drip..drip..
Leak..
Excellent commentary addressing a most urgent need, at many levels.
There are so many external forces pulling at the fabric of Jordan’s society, it certainly should be a priority to strengthen the internal ties of social cohesion. Mankind is a mess.
No, it isn’t the first time.
http://213.251.145.96/cable/2009/07/09AMMAN1689.html
How are we going to put the rage and the blame aside when those in charge belong to one camp and not to both?! Yes, let’s sit down, rationalize everything, and come up with productive solutions, but who is to sit with who? Who makes the final and the initial calls? Who formed the Gendarmerie forces? Who has the power to dissolve/lessen them?
Let’s name things as it is, let’s be honest and real, then we might get to some solutions to this.
Thank you Tarawneh, u said nothing but the truth..the only solution to this ongoing issue is to put aside our identities (Jordanian, Palestinian, Caucasian, …etc ) and instead to agree on one identity. You hold the Jordanian nationality, then you should think and act toward the benefit of this country, not your ppl, tribe or origin. the public is in a serious need for a deep and constructive conversation…
bless you all.
What a waist of time, you should ditch blogging and become a romantic poet instead.
This clash has deep root in the dynamics and complexities of “Jordanian”/” Palestinians” dimension but here is different perspective on the back round of this
مع ظهور الدÙعة الجديدة من تسريبات ويكليكس، برز اØد “الكيبلات” التي اصدرتها السÙارة الأمريكية ÙÙŠ عمان والذي تØدث عن “بلطجة” يمارسها مشجعو نادي الÙيصلي الرياضي واغلبهم من الشرق أردنين، ضد جماهير ومشجعي نادي الوØدات وهو نادي يمثل الاردنين من اصل Ùلسطيني. ذكر التقرير ان هتاÙات جماهير نادي الÙيصلي ÙÙŠ تلك الÙترة شملت إسأت إلى الأسرة الØاكمة، وتØديدا إلى الملكة رانيا العبدالله عقيلة العاهل الأردني بالهتا٠المشهور: “واØد، إثنين، واØد، إثنين، طلقها يا أبو Øسين تنزوجك ثنتين”.
كنت أعمل خبيرا إقتصاديا ومساعدا لمنسق سياسات العراق ÙÙŠ السÙارة الأمريكية ÙÙŠ عمان ÙÙŠ Ùترة إعداد ذلك التقرير ÙÙŠ الشهر السابع من العام 2009. وإن كنت لا املك رÙاهية الØديث عن تÙاصيل عملي او اي شيء كنت Ùد قمت به ضمن مهامي الرسميةـ إلا أنني استطيع القول إنني اذكر تماما أنني أبلغت السÙارة الأمريكية ÙÙŠ عمان تÙاصيل الهتÙات التي كان يطقلها جماهير النادي الÙيصلي ÙÙŠ تلك المباراة، بما Ùيها “طلقها يا أبو Øسين” إضاÙØ© إلى ” عل مكشو٠عل مشكوÙØŒ Ùلسطيني ما بدنا نشؤ
إلا أن أبرز ما يثير الغرابة ÙÙŠ التقرير الذي اصدره نائب السÙير الأمريكية ÙÙŠ عمان لورنس مانديل، والذي Øظيت بشر٠العمل معه ÙÙŠ أكثر من مناسبة، هو “صمت الملك الأردني على ما ÙŠØصل رغم وصول الإسأت إلى عائلته”.
بعد تسرب هذا التقرير بأيام، هاجمت قوات الدرك الأردنية جماهير نادي الوØدات ليلة الخميس، العاشر من كانون الأول، مخلÙØ© ما يزيد عن مئة مصاب منهم Ø·ÙÙ„ ÙÙŠ Øالة Øرجة، Øيث ذكر شهود العيان ومنهم نائب سابق من أصل Ùلسطيني، أن قوات الدرك هاجمت جمهور نادي الوØدات دون أن يستÙزها الجمهور على الإطلاق.
ما Øصل لا يق٠عند كونه عن٠ملاعب، او قسوة اجهزة أمن، Ùالأمر أعمق من ذلك بكثير. Ùمنذ العام 2008ØŒ تبنت دائرة المخابرات العامة الأردنية سياسية شبه معلنة ÙÙŠ عزل وإقصاء وترويع الأردنين من اصل Ùلسطيني، لأجل خلق وضع للÙلسطينين ÙÙŠ الأردن، (وهم الأغلبية Øسب كاÙØ© تقارير وزارة الخارجية الأمريكية)ØŒ بØيث يصبØون على ØاÙØ© الاقصاء والتهميش بدرجاته القصوى بهد٠جعل وجودهم ÙÙŠ الأردن مسألة خاضعة للتشكيك وبالتالي وضعهم على ØاÙØ© تØولهم للاجئين من جديد، هذه الÙكرة أبدعها إستراتيجو المخابرات الأردنية على اساس كونها ورقة ضغط على إسرائيل لمواجهة ما يراه الأردن توجها إسرائيليا Ù„Ùرض Øكم الاغلبية ÙÙŠ الاردن، وبالتالي تأسيس وطن Ùلسطيني شرق النهر.
هذه السياسة بلا ريب شبيهة Ù„Øد كبير جدا بسياسة النخبة الØاكمة ÙÙŠ جنوب Ø¥Ùريقيا التي اختلقت نظام الÙصل العنصري، الأبارتيد، Apartheid لعزل الإغلبية السوداء عن السلطة وموارد البلاد، وتماما كما هو الØال ÙÙŠ الأردن الأن، كانت شرطة جنوب Ø¥Ùريقيا تظهر عنÙا غير مسبوقا ÙÙŠ التعامل مع الأغلبية المهمشة بسبب أو دون سبب.
إلا أن شأن كرة القدم ÙÙŠ الأردن هو أشد تعقيدا، Øيث أن دائرة المخابرات العامة الأردنية تستخدم ملاعب كرة القدم لبث Ø±ÙˆØ Ø§Ù„ØªÙرقة والتمييز ضد الÙلسطينين، Øيث تØولت ملاعب الكرة الاردنية إلى أراضي معارك بديلة By Proxy تستعرض Ùيها الدولة الأردنية سطوتها على الأغلبية الÙلسطينية وقدرتها على الترويع والسيطرة وكذلك تذكير الأردني من أصل Ùلسطيني بأنه ليس سوى “ضي٠ولاجيء”.
إن توقيت ما Øصل يوم الخميس الماضي يعد غريبا جدا، Ùهو يأتي ÙÙŠ وقت تتسم العلاقة بين الأردنين من اصل Ùلسطيني والشرق أردنين بالتعقيد الشديد خاصة بعد إجراء الأردن لإنتخابات مبنية على قانون الصوت الواØد الذي يعطي الأردنين من اصل Ùسطيني Ùرص Ù…Øدودة للÙوز ومقاعد معدودة جدا، Øيث أصرت الØكومة الأردنية على تطبيق ذلك القانون رغم الإنتقادات الدولية من أقرب ØÙ„Ùائها، بØيث Ø£ØµØ¨Ø Ø§Ù„Ø¹Ø±Ø¨ ÙÙŠ إسرائيل، والذين يمثلون ما يزيد بقليل عن 23 بالمائة من السكان، يتمتعون بأØد عشرا نائبا ÙÙŠ الكنيست الأسرائيلي، ÙÙŠ Øين أن الأغلبية الساØقة الÙلسطينية ÙÙŠ الأردن بالكاد يمثلها Ù†Ùس العدد من النواب ÙÙŠ بلدهم.
كذلك Ùإن ما قمت به قوات الدرك الأردنية من إعتداء على جماهير نادي الوØدات إنما هو رسالة قوية جدا ÙÙŠ توقيت Ùريد بعد تسريب ويكيليكيس للرسالة الدبلوماسية المشار إليها إعلاه، أيضا، Ùإن الملعب الرياضي الذي تمت Ùيه المبارة يسمى بإستاد الملك عبدالله الثاني الرياضي، مما يعطي الرسالة عمقا واضØا لا ÙŠØتاج الكثير من التÙسير، بأن الاردنيون من اصل Ùلسطيني الأن يجب ان يعلموا أن أي تعاط٠دولي لن يشÙع لهم، بل سيوقعهم ÙÙŠ مزيد من الألام والمعاناة. Ùهي رسالة Ùجة وواضØØ© وتØذير معلن من قبل الدولة الأردنية لهؤلاء.
من ناØية أخرى، Ùإن ما Øدث ليشير إلى عمق الØÙرة التي ØÙرتها لنÙسها الØكومة الأردنية، Ùسياسات إقصاء الÙلسطينين للضغط على إسرائيل تبين انها غير ذات جدوى، Øيث ان إسرائيل تملك من القو Ø© ما يمنع الاردن Øتى من مجرد Ù…Øاولة Ùرض الÙلسطينين كلاجئين عليها، كما ان تعثر Ù…Ùاوضات السلام الذي قابله مزيد من التشدد الأردني ÙÙŠ التعاطي مع الÙلسطينين جعل الأردن خارج أي معادلة ØÙ„ أكثر شمولا او واقعية من وجهة نظر كاÙØ© الأطرا٠المعنية بالسلام بما Ùيهم الÙلسطينين انÙسهم.
كذلك، Ùإن الأغلبية الÙلسطينية، التي تتعمد الØكومة الأردنية الضغط عليها الأن، إنما هي عصب Øياة الدولة الإقتصادي، Øيث أنهم يسيطرون على قطاع الأعمال والإستثمارات كما Ùˆ تبلغ تØويلات الÙلسطينين العاملين ÙÙŠ الخارج Øوالي الأربعة مليارت دولار سنويا للأردن الذي لا يزيد ناتجه القومي الإجمالي عن 21 مليار دولار سنويا، مما يعني أن تهميش هؤلاء وأÙقادهم الثقة ببلدهم إنما هو انتØار إقتصادي لدولة ذات موارد Ø´ØÙŠØØ© وكذلك هو إنتØار سياسي لدولة تملك القليل من الأوراق السياسية لتلعب بها.
كذلك، Ùإن قوى التطر٠العشائري ÙÙŠ الأردن، ÙˆÙÙŠ تنمرها على الأردنين من اصل Ùلسطيني تتجاوز بالامر للوصول إلى التنمر على الاسرة الØاكمة Ù†Ùسها والإستخÙا٠بمقدسات البلادة السياسية، كما اشار تقرير السÙارة الأمريكية ÙÙŠ عمان، وهو أمر لا تملك مؤسسة العرش ألأردنية رÙاهية Ø§Ù„Ø³Ù…Ø§Ø Ø¨Ù‡ ولا القدرة على مواجهته ÙÙŠ Ù†Ùس الوقت Øيث أن ذلك سيعني عدم سيطرتها على الأجهزة الأمنية والجيش المسيطر عليهما بالكامل من العشائر الشرق اردنيةـ وهذا بØد ذاته أمر وضعت الدولة الأردنية Ù†Ùسها Ùيها نتيØØ© منع الأغلبية الÙلسطينية من أي تثميل ولو شكلي ضمن المنظومة الأمنية.
إلا أن الØكومة الأردنية لا تزال تبدو مصرة على الإستمرار ÙÙŠ الØÙر، معمقة الØÙرة التي ابتعدتها لنÙسها، Øيث ان، دائرة المخابرات العامة هي من يصوغ السياسة الداخلية والخارجية للبلاد، ولذلك Ùان اي تأجيج او تصعيد للوضع الداخلي سيؤدي إلى مزيد من النÙوذ لها، Ù†Ùس هذا الأمر Øدث أثناء الØرب الأهلية الأردنية عام 1970ØŒ Øيث إعتر٠صراØØ© مدير المخابرات الأردني آن ذاك، نذير رشيد- ÙÙŠ مذكراته الممنوعة من النشر ÙÙŠ الأردن ÙˆÙÙŠ Ø£Øاديث مطولة له مع Ùناة الجزيرة- انه هو ومؤسسته كانا يسعيان للتصعيد بل ÙˆØض الراØÙ„ ØŒ الملك Øسين، على مواجهة الÙلسطينين، مما نجم عنه مجازر رهيبة بØÙ‚ المدنين الÙلسطينين ÙÙŠ Øين بقيت المنظمات المسلØØ© الÙلسطينية على قيد الØياة بل وانسØبت إلى لبنان، وهو الأمرالذي لم يخدم اللاجئين الÙلسطينين أو القضية الÙلسطينية الإسرائيلين أو اللبنانين، بل خدم الأردن Ùقط.
ان كاÙØ© المؤشرات ÙÙŠ الأردن توØÙŠ إلى تطور Øالة من عدم الأستقرار الذي يمكن أن يتطور بسهولة إلى اضطرابات واسعة، إلا أن هذه الإضطرابات ستكون مختلÙØ© عما Øدث عام 1970ØŒ Øيث ان الÙلسطينين ÙÙŠ الأردن هذه المرة لا يملكون أي Ø³Ù„Ø§Ø Ø£Ùˆ قوة، وهم أكثر استعداد بعد اربعين عاما من الإضطهاد، لقبول Ùكرة تكوين وطن لهم شرق النهر. كذلك، Ùإن الدول الغربية Ùˆ إسرائيل لا ترى بالضرورة ÙÙŠ الاردن صورة الدولة المسالمة التي كانت تقاتل مجموعة من الإرهابين كما كان الØال عام 1970ØŒ بل ستكون صورة دولة شمولية تنكل بأغلبية شعبها، (وهو تماما ما يسعى إليه دهاقنة الأجهزة الأمنية الأردنية). مما سيدÙع البعض الى التÙكير ÙÙŠ Ùرصة للدول العظمى لإØداث تغير جذري واقتناص ØÙ„ دائم.
إن كان ما Øصل ÙÙŠ مباراة الخميس الÙائت هو تØذير، Ùهو لم يكن تØذيرا للÙلسطينين ÙÙŠ الاردن ÙˆØسب، بل جرس إنذار بخطورة الوضع القائم ÙÙŠ الأردن للمنطقة ككل بما Ùيها الولايات المتØدة وإسرائيل.
Honestly, I think it’s wise not to overreact to the events of Friday night…. sure, it was an embarrassment for Jordan and has no doubt entrenched the negative views about local football in the minds of those who haven’t actually set foot inside a Jordanian stadium for 20 years, but I always think it’s dangerous to impute too many motives or sociological agendas in the minds of young men who have gathered to watch two bitter rivals play each other. It’s not, what anyone thinks, the beginnings of a civil war.
In Europe, where the game was scarred by violence for years, the fans hardly needed the varnish of national identity to kick seven bells out of each other, and the police had no issue wielding batons at anyone with a coloured scarf, whether they were a compatriot or not. In England, Manchester United and Liverpool manage to despise each other without additional badges of identity, as do Tottenham and Arsenal…
I guess the closest comparison to Wehdat-Faisali is probably Glasgow, where Celtic represents the Irish Catholic community, mainly drawn from the immigrants who moved to the city in the 19th century to work on the dockyards. Rangers is the Protestant team… over the years, the rivalry came to mirror the troubles in Northern Ireland, where the Protestants “loyal” to the British government fought with the Catholic minority whose allegiance was instead to Dublin and the Republic of Ireland.
Yes, it was ugly, yes there was all sorts of soul-searching about the violence at the stadium, but it only ever remained a footballing problem, which was managed within the context of the thrice-yearly games between the two clubs. In 2010, they tend to go off without a hitch.
Football is an emotional game watched by young, impassioned men. If you don’t have division, you don’t have interest…. and where you have division amongst this demographic, you have the potential for violence. But it’s entirely possible to manage this violence with effective policing and stewarding, better stadia and maybe greater efforts by the two clubs to reduce the heat with joint events, training camps, expressions of goodwill, etc.
The last thing we need something as mundane as a disturbance at a football match being turned into a national catastrophe.
Somebody has to say something in defense of Mr. Khouri, who’s taking a lot of shit from some ppl who are either walking along the official line in this story, or those who are trying to make their argument against it appear fair and balanced.
Tarek Khouri is not just a politician that you can blindly label as an opportunist. He actually IS the president of the Wehdat club and HAS a certain responsibility towards his players and fans. He IS more in touch with players and fans than you or I will ever be. When he literally hears thousands of people chanting HIS NAME in the stadium, celebrating the win of their team with HIS NAME, and then sees them being beaten, and then hears them and sees them on TV asking HIM DIRECTLY to withdraw the club from the competition, and then hears their stories about how they were beaten, and by who, then the least he can do is support their story, acknowledge the wrong they were subjected to, stand with them, and name names and point fingers (for them) because he knows they need him to do that.
That is the least he can do for them as their “leader.” You talked about leaders and the need for acknowledging people. That’s exactly what he’s doing and you should be commending him not calling his act an absurdity. Yes, the fans will love him even more for it, but it will only be because he did the right thing, and the rest of your article and your own demand from the higher leadership in this country proves it.
يا عالم الهوية الÙلسطينية هوية قوية جدا ليس هنالك اسخ٠من تعبير “اردني من اصل Ùلسطيني” الÙلسطيني لن يقبل ان يكون اردني وبلده على بعد امتار الÙسطيني سيستمر بالقاء اللائمة على هروبهم المخزي من بلدهم على(انتو عارÙين على مين)لم ارى ÙÙŠ Øياتي مثل كره الÙلسطينيين للاردن والاردنيين سوى كره الÙرس للعرب الØÙ„ الوØيد هو عودة الÙلسطينيين للدولة الÙلسطينية المقبلة Øيث يمكن للÙلسطينيين بناء دولة مثل سنغاÙورة على مساØØ© 6000كم2 لانه اذا استمر الوجود الÙلسطيني بالاردن سيتØول الاردن الى صومال اخرى لان الاردنيين لن يستمروا بقبول سيطرة الÙلسطينيين على 70% من الاقتصاد الاردني لانه بكل بساطة الاردنيين ÙÙŠ المناطق الريÙية بدأوا يعوا ان هنالك اØتلال Ùلسطيني للاردن وطبعا يتØمل مسؤولية هذا الوضع اللي قام بتوطين الÙلسطينيين ÙÙŠ المدن الناشئة والعاصمة Øيث جميع الÙرص الاقتصادية بينما ابن الري٠والبادية ليس له سوى الجيش
after the darak forces killed a few jordanians; the public seems to demand a balance. what easier target than a sports team?
Can somebody tell me what the differences are between Palesinians and Jordanians? How would one tell which group a person you meet belongs to?
Are there differences in accent/dialect? Religious differences? Class differences?
@don
The difference is mostly in class, education and occupation. East of the bank Jordanians’ main employer is the government whether in its civil, or military branches and those positions are mostly closed off for those originally from west of the bank and they have to turn to the private sector for their employment and are as a result blamed for controlling that sector of the society.
@Nas
Yes a conversation needs to occur but a conversation about who is a Jordanian? and by whom? those who already decided what it means to be a Jordanian? and what will be the result of that? It will result in granting more rights to one group or another which will result in the disturbance of the tense stale mate that we have now and will cause the whole situation to be more volatile than it currently is.
Having a conversation will only add to the volatility of the situation, the tension needs to be diffused first and currently i have no idea about how to diffuse it after it have been escalated needlessly with the passport scare and being told by the military veterans that their grand plan is to expel 4 million people out of Jordan?!
Diffuse the situation first, then there can be a hope for a conversation. As it stands now it would be a hopeless conversation even if it somehow got started.
Agree with “Agree, but…”
@mhmd …. Seriously you would imply the fact that pales-origin Jordanian are ruling the private sector which Ilis btw the productive part that pays taxes and fund the government which eventually spend on those unproduCtive people you are talking abt !! Basically they can’t blame anyone but themselves for being stupid and un civilized !!! What the pales/Jordanian have they earned fair and square and no one can even take the credit for but themselves ! Not even the Jo gov. !!
@nas gr8 piece but u should have mentioned how faisalii fans insult the queen on daily basisand our king can’t do s*** abt it!!
Btw am An original Jordanian ;p so spare me racist comments ! Ili mish 3ajboo jameedatoo ou 3am karak !
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@Don
Yes there is a distinct Palestinian dialect also Palestinians usually have a lighter skin tone than Jordanian “Jordanians”. As mentioned above there is a class difference and in terms of religion I think (but am not sure) that there are more Palestinian Christians than Jordanian “Jordanian” ones, but other than that most of them are Muslims of the same sect. There are also differences in customs/ traditions for both people like for instance in weddings.
Thank you Naseem for a well written article on a difficult subject. And thank you for putting out a credible alternative to that lousy piece of journalism in the Washington Post.
At the risk of stating the obvious, no one has been ignoring the issue nor trying to airbrush it. The conversation has been ongoing for a long time in the media as well as among communities. Their Majesties have never stopped working on this and trying to frame the conversation on the basis of national unity. But as @bambam very rightly points out, tensions are too high and there is still a lot of unclarity in the regional situation.
Still, each and every one of us can do something. We can fight that destructive mentality in our homes, in our offices and in our communities. We can make a difference.
wow talk about treading lightly .. that was one soft article on such a hot topic ..
for me i am still perplexed as to why did the darak start beating everyone .. i think they owe us an explanation
For me the issues is rather clear. There is a structural problem with the Gendarmerie’s attitude towards the citizens. They don’t think before acting and they certainly don’t put human dignity and safety first. One transparent investigation and clear measures will solve the issue.
to ma7moodjo:
نت مجر جاØد وناكر جميل آخر – اليك هذه الØقائق: نص٠مليون اردني وربما اكثر بعيش على الزراعة من زيتون وغيره -السياØØ© ÙÙŠ الاردنا تساهم باكثر من15% من الناتج القومي الاجمالي (يعمل بها الا٠الÙلسطينيين)_رواتب الجيش والاجهزة الامنية من المساعدات الاجنبية (بعدين يعني اللي بيشتغل بالجيش وموÙر الامن عشان غيره يجمع الملايين عالة على الناس!!!)_الÙوسÙات والبوتاس تساهم ب15% من الناتج القومي الاجمالي طبعا قطاع الزراعة والصناعة والسياØØ© وقطاع الصناعات التØويلية هو المØرك لقطاع الخدمات (كل مدخلاته اردنية ÙÙŠ الغالب)والنقطة
الاهم انه متوسط دخل الÙرد الاردني من الناتج القومي الاجمالي ÙÙŠ المناطق الريÙية Øيث يعيش معظم الاردنيين لا يتعدى 1000 دينار سنويا
قطاع المياه يعتمد كليا على Ø§Ù„Ù…Ù†Ø Ø§Ù„Ø®Ø§Ø±Ø¬ÙŠØ© (يعمل به الÙلسطينيين مثل الاردنيين)
وزارة الصØØ© ووزارة التربية اكبر مشغلين بالقطاع العام يعمل بها الÙلسطينيين والاردنيين بالتساوي
لجامعات الاردنية يعمل بها الÙلسطينيين بالتساوي
راجع قروض صندوق التنمية والتشغيل وستعر٠نسبة الÙلسطينيين الذين ÙŠØصلون على قروض
راجع وزارة التنمية الاجتماعية لتعر٠نسبة الدعم التي تقدم للاسر ÙÙŠ عمان الشرقية والرصيÙØ© والبقعة
تØويلات العاملين ÙÙŠ الخارج Øوالي 3 مليارات سنويا( ويشارك بها الاردنيين Øيث يعمل عشرات الا٠ÙÙŠ الخليج
مش بس الÙلسطينيين) طبعا اللي برسلو هذه التØويلات من الÙلسطينيين تعلمو بالاردن وكانو عبء على مدارسه كل شئ يدين به الÙلسطينيين للاردن
بالنسبة للجيش Ùالسبب هو امني بكل تاكيد سبب عدم وجود الÙلسطينيين Ùيه
وبالنهاية الكل بدÙع ضرائب بالاردن Ùˆ الوجود الÙلسطيني تسبب ÙÙŠ Ùقر الاردنيين لانه ببساطه اخذ Ùرصهم Ùˆ السؤال بيبقى هو الاردن بلد مين بالاساس وهل يعقل ان نسبة اللاجئين تصير نص عدد سكانه؟
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@Don: there are no “real” differences other than relative geography and mild various customs which are insignificant (as there are differences between people living in two different cities in jordan, let alone across the bank). some of the things bambam pointed out are relatively true, but not as black and white as he points it. things are much more mixed. those of palestinian origin do operate in the public sector as do jordanians operating in the private sector.
—
@bambam: “Yes a conversation needs to occur but a conversation about who is a Jordanian? and by whom? those who already decided what it means to be a Jordanian? and what will be the result of that? It will result in granting more rights to one group or another which will result in the disturbance of the tense stale mate that we have now and will cause the whole situation to be more volatile than it currently is.”
a conversation i envision crosses all spectrums as every national conversation must, and will obviously include the state (as it must). it is not about who controls and it is not about “deciding what it means to be jordanian”. a conversation on this issue is about creating a national dialog between various groups who live under a single entity, umbrella, state, existence. living in jordan and working, breathing, and establishing a family under this banner is to be jordanian, regardless of whether one is from nablus, karak, damascus, or baghdad originally. i think we both know this. the goal is to find ways to redefine what it means to be jordanian in the 21st century in the same way many western nations that were primarily white anglo-saxons have come to redefine themselves under a multi-cultural framework. it is about finding solutions to wedge problems and then finding ways to resolve those problems – even a change in official and unofficial policy is part of that conversation and dialog. and i dont agree with your immediate conclusion that this will create a more volatile situation. what we have now is volatile.
“Having a conversation will only add to the volatility of the situation, the tension needs to be diffused first and currently i have no idea about how to diffuse it after it have been escalated needlessly with the passport scare and being told by the military veterans that their grand plan is to expel 4 million people out of Jordan?!”
i think the first step is to remove the paranoia or at least decrease drastically, primarily by having the state become more transparent and forthcoming with the people when it comes to identity-related issues (such as the passport fiasco) and for the people to stop this tendency to blow everything out of proportion. we need to be honest with who we are.
“Diffuse the situation first, then there can be a hope for a conversation. As it stands now it would be a hopeless conversation even if it somehow got started.”
diffusing the situation has always been the one and only step taken by the state and it usually involves a policy of appeasement. once that superficial calm is restored, no other steps are taken until the next such incident – which only emphasizes just how superficial that calm was to begin with.
thanks for engaging by the way – always appreciate your healthy contributions to any debate/dialog/conversation.
—–
@Ma7moodjo: i feel your frustration, but let’s try and keep a civil tone and mind the language. it does nothing but add fuel to the fire and our points end up getting lost in the stone-throwing. your response to mhmd is valid but we should be careful about being absolutist in these opinionated perceptions. everyone who works in this country contributes to it in one way or another. the public sector and private sector go hand in hand in the operations of the country. everyone pays taxes (although the rich have had a tendency of avoiding them in many cases) regardless of their origin. both sectors are rife with similar problems: corruption, lack of transparency and unproductivity, etc – regardless of the origin of their workers. so let’s try and reach for some balance in the equation instead of going to one polar end whenever someone we disagree with states something from another polar end.
secondly, with regards to insults of the queen. this is primarily hooliganism. if you’ve been to a faisaly and we7dat game you’ll notice that many of the insults are ethnic, but just as many are very personal. fans go as far as to find out the names of the sisters and mothers of rival players in order to taunt them verbally. let’s not exaggerate and say that the queen is insulted on a daily basis. let’s not exaggerate and say the king can’t do anything about it – and what is to be expected of him? to interfere with a football game and jail fans? isn’t this the very reaction we don’t want/need?
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@A7lam: you are right to say that this conversation has been “happening” but i would say that it is very much under the radar, off the grid and kept subdued by everyone, including the state, activists, media, journalists, etc. it needs to happen in the spotlight, it needs to evolve and branch out, and seep in to where it’s needed (the education curriculum for instance). it needs to come out of the closet and in to the limelight. it wont be easy but it will ease tensions in the long run. i truly believe that.
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@mo: i think such an issue is very charged and requires a soft approach as opposed to haphazard, run-into-a-brick-wall-at-full-speed kind of approach, which doesn’t contribute to the conversation, but rather just plays on the fear and anger of one people at the expense of another. i’ll leave that to others. let’s not mistake courage with bravado when it comes to this issue.
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@Zak: based on past experiences and observations, i unfortunately tend to agree with you. they are more action-prone and heavy-handed than regular police officers as they are trained with a riot-control mentality, which seems to translate to a hit-and-ask-questions-later approach. this approach needs a drastic paradigm shift for the 21st century jordan, and more importantly mechanisms of accountability need to be clear cut and public. they shouldnt have to rely on situations of complete chaos that the state cannot downplay, or whenever someone like yasser abu hilala gets hit on the head. accountability should not be tied to the degree to which the state is caught red-handed or embarrassed, but across the border.
Don… Nothing is the answer to your question. Absolutely no difference. They are the same race, the same ethnicity, the same language and the same religions…ohh and the same skin colour…
Actually people from Nablus are closer to people from Salt in their customs and traditions than to other city in both places… and people from Khalil are very similar to people from Karak…. As a matter of fact some Palestinians come from Jordan originally, and some Jordanians come from Palestine…both places have the rural, urban and beduin customs and traditions…
Jordanians and Palestinians are the same people, but colonization has created the differences.
Madas, nicely put after a wave or racist or statist views.
To.. mhmd……هذا ما يقوله العنصري الأبيض ÙÙŠ الولايات المتØدة عن المهاجرين والأقليات الآخرى بعد ما شيدو هذه البلد بدمائهم وعرقهم … ولك الشعب الÙلسطيني تاج على راسك وراس أسيادك الذين تأمرو ويتامرون على هذا الشعب الذي دÙع الدماء عن شرÙÙƒ وشر٠أسيادك
Ùلسطيني الى الأبد : you are welcome to contribute to the conversation here but i will not allow for name-calling, even if you (or anyone else) absolutely disagrees with a certain commenter. thanks.
عييييب علييييكو
“for the 21st century Jordan”
This is kinda depressing;
50% of Muslim Jordanians support gender segregation at the workplace.
70% of Muslim Jordanians support stoning people who commit adultery.
58% support cutting of hands and whipping for stealing.
and 86% support killing people who leave Islam.
at the same time 30 % of muslim Jordanians are VERY concerned about extremism
meaning 16% of those actually think murdering people for choosing their religion is perfectly normal.
Its kinda intriguing, what do they think think extremism mean? lol
a 21 century Jordan is an Illusion. Come to think of it let the darak have their way, let them kill a protester every once in a while, for the greater good (joking about the killing part as it seems am, unlike 86% of our country, a human being)
am really scared of the 16 century Somalia Jordan will turn into when we finally get real democracy.
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/#prc-jump
majali’s made up party is the opportunist,not khouri
you think Khouri lost,really?
majali’s party claims shadow members in parliament,this is absurd
khouri is a leader of the biggest social community in Jordan
recent riots,fights,killings,all done by lucky people who get gov job only because last name
Palestinians need to be involved in government, all gov jobs are barred to them, enuff said
very disappointing attitude from someone who grow up abroad,was treated equally, your last name could make you a minister. treat people based on their qualifications not origin and turn them into taxpayers only with no involvement in government
accept jordan’s demographic reality and stop fantasizing about wasfi al tal time
لن Ù†Ø³Ù…Ø Ù„Ù„Ø¹Ù†ØµØ±ÙŠÙ† أن يختطÙÙˆ النقاش، لقد عانا الشعب الÙلسطيني الأمرين من “”أشقاه'” العرب الصهاينه المزيÙين الذين رضخوا ورقصوا وستسلموا وتعاونوا مع المØتل الصهيوني الغاصب من أجل ØÙنة دولارات والقليل من Ùتات الخبز المستعمر الجديد القديم، لم ولن نقبل بأقل من شبر واØد منقوص من Ùلسطين الغاليه ØŒ Ù†ØÙ† نقاوم وسنقاوم كل جهه عربية متصهينة تعاونت وتتعاون مع هذا العدو…Ù†ØÙ† وياكم والزمن طويل ØŒ سيأتي اليوم عندما يأتي هؤلاء المتصهينين العرب بتقبيل مؤخرة الشعب الÙلسطيني وطلب المغÙرة والغÙران عما ما أقتراÙوه من جرائم بØÙ‚ الشعب العربي الÙلسطيني
الأردن دوله مزيÙÙ‡ أتت وخÙتلقت ÙÙŠ سرديب وأقبية المستعمر الأبيض ØŒÙقط أنظر الى خارطة الأردن ومن رسمها ØŒ أنه رائيس الوزراء تشرشل البيريطاني سيئ الصيت ØŒ الذي عمل جاهدا على تقسيم الشعب الواØد الى ملل وجماعات وهميه مثل أردني Ùلسطيني سوري لبناني عراقي كويتي سعودي قطري بØراني أماراتي عÙماني يمني، أستيقظو يا أيها الشعوب مستقبلكم ÙˆØاضركم وماضيكم واØد ØŒ Ù†ØÙ† كا شعب واØد يجب أن نبداء بتغير هذه الخريطه المشئومة التي جلبت الويلاات والمصائب لكل Ùردا عاش على هذه الأرض ÙƒÙايه مهازل وغزعبلاات
@Nadim: calling khouri an opportunist does not mean the majali is not one either. if you like, they are both equal opportunists for their own causes. second, jordanians of palestinian are in government – saying they are barred is simply put,folly. lastly, your ad hominem fallacies contribute nothing to the development of a positive conversation.
I am not sure why people have such difficulty in being proud with both identities. My family is palestinian and have their roots firmly there. Jordan is where I grew up my childhood years. I feel loyal to my palestinian heritage and roots as well as firmly loyaly to Jordan as my adopted home . Jordan is as much part of my identity as my palestinian heritage.
Why does one have to choose to be loyal to one but not the other? I consider myself as much as a jordanian as a palestinian. Without jordan, I wouldn’t have had an opportunity to live freely away from the occupation. I am forever grateful that Jordan provided me with a citizenship as without it, I would be another stateless palestinian refugee with no rights anywhere. This whole notion of Jordan being the new alternative homeland for palestinians is also absurd. I have yet to meet a single palestinian who wants this as an option. Jordan is Jordan. Palestine is Palestine.
We should move away from such national “fitneh” and focus on continuing building Jordan and also seek peace and resolution for the palestinian cause in Palestine. The In Jordan, we have a serious issue in acting as one nation. Tribal jordanian fighting across party lines during the last election was a great example that this is not an issue related to just palestinian’s in jordan.
The slogan for “Jordan First” should be changed to ” We are all Jordanians” I never liked the Jordan first slogan as it never implied unity amoung it’s citizens and people!
But I digress.
Ùلسطيني الى الأبد / The Free Jordanian: I think you know my commenting policy when it comes to posting under multiple names. I do not appreciate any attempts to fool people. If you have something you’d like to say, stick to posting it under one name and stand by it.
Second, no one is denying the right of Palestine to exist, least of all Jordanians of whatever origin. However, do not fall in to this idiotic trap of needing to affirm the existence of Palestine by denying the existence of Jordan.
Furthermore, I think it is time to talk about the future, and not about the past. The problems we are facing today are obviously tied to a past, but to overcome them we need to resolve elements alive in our status quo and in our country.
Ùلسطيني الى الأبد
The Free Jordanian
الصراخة كلامكم غير Ù…Ùيد Ùˆ مثير للمشاكل ØŒ تعلموا الهدوء Ùˆ الØكمة ØŒ أسلوبكم تهجمي
الأردن بلد عريق ذات ماضي كبير، ليس Ù…Øدث كما تتدعون
Nas
I was not saying it’s Khouri vs. the made up party,just saying that these are the true opportunist,khouri indeed have a wide base of supporters,losing the elections it’s either his supporters didn’t bother go voting,or there is some fool playing, but he is obliged to make statements and press conferences, as he is the head of the club
People of Palestinian origin are not the government!We are not talking about some camerman here or an engineer in the municipality or some doctor and so on, top positions,government positions,it is even given to the biggest tribes
Back in the time,Jordanians from east bank,would go to west bank,run in elections,win very big,hold big positions,with no problems
We all agree that we will never be like Lebanon or Iraq,but we need to keep a dialogue and change things
كي٠يمكن أن ننسى الماضي ØŒ والماضي هوا من أهم مكونات والعوامل الجوهريه ÙÙŠ بناء مجتماعات ،لا بلعكس يجب علينا أن نتكلم ونØاور بعضنا البعض ÙÙŠ تاريخنا ،الأمم يجب أن تدرس وتØلل التاريخ Øتى نتوصل الى نوع من التÙاهم والتعايش مع بعضنا البعض يجب أن ننتقد أنÙسنا ونØلل ما Øصل Øتى لا نكرر الأخطاء التاريخيه الÙادØÙ‡ التي تسببت ÙÙŠ تشردم وطمØلال ÙÙŠ للكثير من الدول العربيه ØŒ لقد أنتهت Ùكرة كنس المشكله وقد٠بها تØت السجادة
@The Free Jordanian: i think you misunderstood my point, but please refer to what nadim wrote to you.
@Nadim: im not too interested in going down this path or digressing the conversation, but suffice to say that khouri ran in the third district christian seat, which isnt typically home to his supporters. he was also one of several MPs who was investigated for voter fraud last elections. but again, i dont want to get in to this – let’s just disagree on this point and move on as it doesn’t serve the convo. as for govt positions, i agree that many of the top posts are reserved for jordanians under an unofficial policy, but it is an abhorent exaggeration to say those of pali origin are “bnarred”. how many ministers, deputy ministers, and yes, even ordinary workers are of pali origin? moreover, who much have they increased in the last decade? and these are public appointments.
we need to move beyond these lingering points and avoid generalizations. once we establish a healthy national dialog these barriers of entry will begin to fade or, at the very least, be addressed officially. they will be forced to by the new status quo.
The word “discrimination” was not mentioned in the entire article which is the name of the problem/source of infection. You ask for a conversation? The victim is not allowed to voice his pain otherwise he will be labeled as anti-national unity so there ends the conversation.
@Zeidinio: i strongly disagree with that last statement. are you – an apparent victim – not voicing your pain, as you put it, right now? discrimination and calls to remedy the situation have long been called for by the “victims”. few organized efforts have been generated from such complaints, but they do exist in the public sphere nonetheless.
who is stopping you from partaking in this very conversation right now?
من مصلØÙ‡ أعداء الأردنيين Ùˆ الÙلسطينيين على Øد سواء ØŒ أن يعز٠أØمق ما على وتر التÙرقه ØŒ Ùيتبعه Øمقى آخرون ØŒ بØسن نيه ØŒ أو بسوءها ØŒ أو لمجرد Øميّه اشتعل أوارها ÙÙŠ Ù„Øظه غضب ØŒ Ùيرددون تنوعيات مختلÙÙ‡ على مقام النشاز
ÙÙŠ Øاله الÙلسطينيين Ùˆ الأردنيين ØŒ هناك العديد من الأطرا٠المستÙيده ØŒ يهمها أن يظل النزاع مشتعلآ ØŒ Ùˆ مستعد للتذكير ( Ùˆ التأنيث ) بأيام داØس Ùˆ الغبراء ØŒ طالما أن هذا الأمر يصب ÙÙŠ مصلØتها ØŒ Ùˆ هو قطعآ يصب
الÙلسطيني يتÙاخر على الاردني أنه عمر الأردن Ùˆ ملأه Øضاره ØŒ Ùˆ الاردني يمن على الÙلسطيني أنه آواه لمّا خسر وطنه
الØقيقه هي أن الأردني أعمى Ùˆ الÙلسطيني مشلول ØŒ Ùˆ ما لم يستثمرا أنصا٠القدرات Ùلن ينجو منهما Ø£Øد
لا يوجد عشيره اردنيه واØده ليس لها امتداد من نسب أو مصاهره مع عائلات Ùلسطينيه ØŒ Ùˆ لا يوجد عائله Ùلسطينيه واØده ليس لها امتداد من نسب أومصاهره مع عائلات اردنيه . اذن Ùالاردني ØŒ شرق اردني كما ÙŠØلو له أن يتسمى ØŒ Ùلسطيني ÙÙŠ الواقع ربما أكثر من Ùلسطينيون كثر ØŒ Ùˆ الÙلسطيني المعاير آكل الجميد ØŒ يأكل الجميد ÙÙŠ الخليل Ùˆ يسميه ( كشك ) دون أن يدري أنه اردني بما هو أكثر بكثير من جواز سÙر
كأردني أدين قوات الدرك التي قامت بترويع وأرهاب مشجعين Ùريق الوØدات، قوات الدرك لم ÙŠØÙ„ لها أن ترى Ùريق الوØدات بلÙوز على نضيره الÙيصلي، الى متى سنبقي رؤسنا تØت الرمال ØŒ العنصريه والجهل المطلق من قبل قوات الدرك هي من أهم الأسباب ÙÙŠ تأجيج وأثارة الÙوضى والشغب والارهاب، ما نسمعه من شعارات عنصرية ضد أهلنا وأقاربنا الÙلسطينين شئ مخزي وعنصري ØŒ لقد سمعت شعارات عنصريه ضد الأردنين من أصل Ùلسطيني ÙÙŠ أخر زيارة قمت بها الى الأردن، قوات الدرك يجب أن تØاسب على ما أقترÙته من أرهاب منضم ضد مشجعين نادي الوØدات وألا النتيجه ستكون كاريثيه بكل المقايس
Øتى نكون على وضوØ!
.. سأقول كلاماً لا يعجب Ø£Øداً، ولكني وسط هذا الانتهاك الوطني أعرÙ:
– أن مشجعي لعبة الكرة الأردنية ليس لهم ميزة غير Ø§Ù„ØµÙŠØ§Ø ÙÙŠ المدرجات!!.
– وهي أولاً وآخراً لعبة تنخر ÙÙŠ جسم بلدنا بالعصبيات الإقليميات، ولم تستطع الدولة أن توقÙها بطريقة ذكية.
أمس الأول تكونت مجموعة شيطنات ÙÙŠ الملعب، ÙˆØين Øدث الاصطدام اخطأ الإعلام ÙتØدث عن مباراة الوØدات والÙيصلي، والØقيقة أن جمهور الÙيصلي كان قد غادر، Øسب اتÙاق اتØاد الكرة بانسØاب جمهور الÙريق الخاسر، والصدام Øدث بين جمهور الوØدات والأمن.. هكذا يجب أن Ù†Ùهم Øدود الØادث!!.
ونقول: قامت «العربيّة» بأسوأ تغطية ÙÙŠ تاريخها Ùقالت أن 250 جريØاً سقطوا على أرض الملعب.. ÙÙŠ Øين يقول مستشÙÙ‰ الأشرÙية أن الذين دخلوا المستشÙÙ‰ هم 11 Ùقط. وان سبعة بقوا ليلتها ÙˆØالتهم بسيطة أما الأمن وجرØاه أكثر Ùدخلوا المستشÙيات العسكرية!!.
ÙˆØتى لا تبقى «الجزيرة» بلا Øمص، استدعت المØللين والكÙتّاب، وتØولت Øالة شغب عادية ومØدودة إلى مشكلة من مشاكل الوطن:
– لا Ø¥ØµÙ„Ø§Ø Ø³ÙŠØ§Ø³ÙŠØ§Ù‹.
– لا Ùلسطينيين ÙƒÙاية ÙÙŠ البرلمان.
– Øالة Ùراغ ÙÙŠ الØكم.
وكثير كثير غيره، مما استدعى تØركات نعرÙها جيداً تقوم على Øرائق Øاويات الزبالة ÙÙŠ المخيم، والدواليب المستهلكة.
ورأساً: أعلن رئيس نادي الوØدات وق٠مشاركة النادي ÙÙŠ بطولة الكأس، والدوري .. دون سؤال مجلس الإدارة، ودون الإلتزام بشراكة النادي ÙÙŠ اتØاد الكرة. ويظهر أن الصØÙÙŠ الذي نادى Ø¨Ø§Ù„Ø¥ØµÙ„Ø§Ø Ø§Ù„Ø³ÙŠØ§Ø³ÙŠ لم يعر٠أن جماهير الوØدات ÙÙŠ الانتخابات السابقة انتقلت إلى الدائرة الثالثة دون اØترام لقانون الانتخاب، وانتخب ممثل المسيØيين ÙÙŠ عمان، ÙˆÙرض ارادتها على الناس!!.
إن Ø§Ù„ØªØ³Ù„Ù‘Ø Ø¨Ø§Ù„Ø¥Ù‚Ù„ÙŠÙ…ÙŠØ© لا يوصل إلاّ إلى المØاصصة ÙÙŠ البلد. Ùهل يريد اخوان كل السلطة للمقاومة بعد Ùشلهم، أن ÙŠØاصصوا الأردنيين.. كما ÙŠØدث ÙÙŠ العراق؟!!. أو ÙŠØدث ÙÙŠ لبنان؟!!.
هذا كلام لا Ù†Øب أن نقوله مرّة أخرى، ولكنه يجب أن يكون Ù…Ùهوماً، Ùالأردن واØد ولا يقبل القسمة والوطن البديل لن يمر تØت شعار الوØدة الوطنية، ونشعر بالإهانة أنه ÙÙŠ الوقت الذي تعود Ùيه Øكومة نتنياهو إلى «أرض إسرائيل الكاملة»، تتØرك قوى هنا لتصدير قصة ÙˆØدة الضÙتين ورÙض ÙÙƒ الارتباط!!.
طارق مصاروه
@Hamede: I agree with you sir, and I think you framed the argument in its rightful context. it is this context, this bigger picture, that we often forget.
@The Free Jordanian: it is disappointing to see you, in typical fashion, not evolving past the flame-throwing. your approach of crying havoc seems to have never contributed positively to any conversation i’ve seen you engage with on this blog.
perhaps it’s time to try a different approach. just for kicks.
@Nadim
Here’s some one who tried to have a “conversation”.This proves my point earlier( google it for more details surprised you didn’t write about it or even heard of it) I have more examples for you if you like.
http://www.jordandays.tv/showVideo1.aspx?VidId=1476
معذره يا Øميد، الكل يعر٠هذه الØقيقة التاريخيه ولكن هناك أطرا٠من الØكومة ومنها المخابارات العامة وعلى رأسها الديون الملكي وبعض السذج من الطرÙين يريدون ضرب هذا النسيج الأجتماعي من أجل أبقاء هذا النظام وتمديد Ùترته المنتهيه منذ ١٩٥٧ أي بعد أول وأخر انتخابات نزيه جرت ÙÙŠ الأردن عندما أنتخب أهل مدينة القدس الدكتور يعقوب زيادين من مدينة الكرك ÙƒÙ…Ø±Ø´Ø ÙˆÙ†Ø§Ø¦Ø¨ عنهم، طبعا هذا الألتÙا٠الوطني الغير مثيل له لم ÙŠØ³Ù…Ø ÙÙŠ الأستمرار والبقاء لاأنه ترجم ليس Ùقط الوØدة والØمة التاريخيه ما بين الشعب الواØد … أنا أقول وأكرر من ÙŠØاسب من؟ ومن هوا المسؤول عن هذا الأرهاب الدركي؟ متى سنبقى رهينه عند هذا النظام المÙلس والÙاسد؟
Nas,, flame-throwing? are you joking me?
you don’t want to talk!
shed some light on the chants praising ariel sharon and the killing of al durrah child
why no one dares to talk about this and try to deal with the real flame throwers????
why whenever i criticize,complain i hear : ملوخياتك وعلى الجسر
when you end up paying 500% customs fees because the employee asks: where was your dad born,blatantly, and your friend gets away with little because he is garabah!! not isolated event this is the attitude
Palestinians should stop bashing jordan and get active in the political scene.
just a note,khouri’s opponent is barely known,runs every elections and loose way behind everyone. i don’t like khouri,after all he is a capitalist,show off,just like all pm
the whole incident is stupid caused by merely 2 or 3 men eager to use their batons.
this stupid, i will never cheer or vote for someone because of his origin knowing he is useless a thief.
i think we are all suffering from $ issues , I’m broke you are broke, let put this whole stupid origin issue and focus on corruption,which has no origin or religion
when a Member of Jordanian Parliament (nariman al rousan) comes out on public in a speech and says the only thing Jordan benefited from Jordanians of palestinian origins – (not sure who gave her authority to speak on behalf of jordan about the benefit of 60+% of the population but anyway) – the only benefit is we learnt how to eat “Mlookhyee” (a local dish), in other words “worthless”, and she goes not only unpunished but re-elected, meanwhile we saw what happened to the President of Wehdat T.Khoury in the last elections, then how can you really expects to be there any grounds for a “national discussion”?
this is probably the first time I see the supporters of the winning team get beaten up like that, and luckily the security fence collapsed otherwised there would have been deaths from suffocation. Had there been deaths would it have made a difference to the official response (which so far and will stay a big fat SILENCE)? i think we all know the answer (no, coz they are from the “worthless” side)…
وقالت عضو البرلمان ناريمان الروسان ان الملوخية المساهمة المنطقية الوØيدة التي قدمها اللاجئون علي طريق دورهم ÙÙŠ تشكيل الهوية الوطنية للوطن الأردني.
والروسان أشارت لدخول الملوخية للمطبخ الأردني بعد عام 48 من باب السخرية ليس من اللاجئين الÙلسطينيين Ùقط وإنما من أي رأي يعتبرهم شركاء ÙÙŠ الأردن بصورته الØالية
http://www.paldf.net/forum/showthread.php?p=76963
ok. so let me sum up what the last few comments are concluding:
1) basically there is a problem of discrimination in the country.
2) that discrimination is against jordanians of palestinian origin and it is conducted by jordanians of jordanian origin.
3) this discrimination and the identity issue needs to be resolved.
4) there are no grounds for a national discussion to help resolve this problem because this problem exists.
5) and also, there is no such thing as jordan.
am i getting this right or am i missing something here? someone help me/us out please.
وإذا جئنا إلى المنطقة العربية، سنجد أن أكثر الخلÙيات السياسية الواقÙØ© وراء كواليس كرة القدم تتجلى ÙÙŠ الأردن، Øيث نادي الوØدات يمثل الأردنيين من أصل Ùلسطيني، أما الÙيصلي Ùيمثل الشرق الأردني. وهذه الØقيقة معروÙØ© للجميع منذ عقود. لكن السؤال الذي ÙŠØ·Ø±Ø Ù†Ùسه: لماذا ظهرت هذه الØالة على Ø§Ù„Ø³Ø·Ø Ø¨Ù‡Ø°Ù‡ الØدة أمام جميع وسائل الإعلام ÙÙŠ هذا الوقت؟
والإجابة بالغة التعقيد، لكنها تتمØور بشكل أساسي Øول Ùشل الØكومة ÙÙŠ بناء العلاقات الاجتماعية ÙˆÙÙ‚ مبدأ المواطنة، ÙˆØªØ¹Ù…ÙŠÙ‚Ù Ø±ÙˆØ Ø§Ù„Ø§Ù†ØªÙ…Ø§Ø¡ والولاء ÙÙŠ Ù†Ùوس الأردنيين ‘من شتى المنابت والأصول’. وهذه العبارة الأخيرة كانت على الدوام موجودة ÙÙŠ خطابات الملك الراØÙ„ الØسين بن طلال (1935 Ù€ 1999). لكن الØكومات المتعاقبة Ùشلت، عن سبق إصرار وترصد، ÙÙŠ تطبيق هذا الكلام على الأرض، لذا ظلت شعارات الوØدة الوطنية وأخوة الدم ØÙبراً على ورق، يتم نشرها من Øين لآخر للاستهلاك المØلي، واختراع هالة التماسك الاجتماعي.
Ùهناك تهميش منهجي للأردنيين من أصل Ùلسطيني، Ùهم لا يشكلون سوى عÙشر مجلس النواب الØالي (2010)ØŒ وهذه نتيجة متوقعة لقيام الØكومة بتزوير الانتخابات، وتÙتيت المجتمع على أسس عشائرية وولاءات لا تمت للوطن بصلة. ÙˆÙÙŠ واقع الأمر Ùإن التمييز ÙÙŠ المجتمع الأردني ظهر بعد Ø£Øداث أيلول (سبتمبر) 1970ØŒ Øيث الاقتتال بين الجيش الأردني والمنظمات الÙلسطينية، وهذه الأØداث المؤسÙØ© انعكس تأثيرها على الأوضاع الاجتماعية بشكل كارثي، Ùصار ÙŠÙنظر إلى الأردني ذي الأصل الÙلسطيني بريبة
To the The Free Jordanian
Øماية الأردن تتطلب أولاً Øماية الجبهة الداخلية ووØدتها ØŒ وليس تمزيقها وبعثرتها ØŒ لأنها أولاً من مكونات الشعب الأردني الذي لا نستطيع الغاءها أو تصÙيتها أو القÙز عنها ØŒ .Øماية الأردن تكون بوØدتنا وليس البØØ« عن وسائل الطخ على أنÙسنا وأرجلنا وتمزيق ÙˆØدتنا وتماسكنا .ØŒ والتعاطي مع الإهتمامات العربية والدولية ÙˆÙÙŠ طليعتها دعم الشعب الÙلسطيني ومنظمة التØرير وسلطتها الوطنية بدون إنتقاص من ØÙ‚ الأردنيين ØŒ لا Ùرق بين مسلم ومسيØÙŠ ØŒ وبين عربي وكردي ØŒ وبين إبن المدينة أو البادية أو الري٠أو المخيم ØŒ Ùالمكونات الإجتماعية الأربعة هي مصدر قوة الأردنيين ووØدتهم وتماسكهم ØŒ Ùهل ندرك ؟؟ هل Ù†Ùهم ؟؟ وهل نتصر٠على هذا الأساس ؟؟ أرجو ذلك
Øميدي
الوØدة، الوØدة ومن ثما الوØدة ØŒ هذا ما أسمعه من العديد من الجهات، ولكن ÙÙŠ المقابل ومن أجل الØوار البناء، كي٠نتوصل الى ÙˆØدة وهناك خلل هيكلي وسياسى واجتماعي ما بين Ø£Ùراد المجتمع؟ هل هناك Ù…Øاسبة للذين أقترÙÙˆ كسر العضام وتطبيش الرؤوس، لا يوجد عندي مانع ÙÙŠ الوصول الى ØÙ„ عادل لكل المشاكل التى تراكمت عبرا السنين، يجب أن نتØدث بكل صدق وشÙاÙيه عما يواجهنا من صعاب وأكثرها من صنع الØكومة الغير شرعية التي Ø£Ùتقرت المصداقيه، كي٠يمكن أن نتØدث عن ÙˆØدة كمجتمع والØكومة هي التي عملت على ضرب وتقسيم الشعب الواØد؟ أسئله أطرØها أليك يا سيد Øميد والى من يهمه الأمر
@ Madas, i disagree. The reason to why Palestinians from Nablus are similar to those from salt is because most from Salt are originally from Nablus. Salt was established and build by Palestinians from Nablus.
as for Karakiyeen being similar to those from al khaleel, this is the first time i hear this. We dont look the same as them, we have a completly diffirent accent etc. Almost all the Khalayla i have seen have been blond lightskinned, that is not how we look in karak unless someone is from shami origin.
And it is also not correct to claim there are no diffirences because the Palestinian dialect is diffirent from our dialect. Most jordanians are bedouins originating from the arab penninsula while the Palestinians have Roman, canaanite, greek, ghassani and such origins. The Palestinian bedouins are similar to jordanian bedouins. lebanese bedouins and syrian bedouins but most Palestinians, Lebanese and Syrians arent Bedouins and the diffirence between bedouins/penninsula arabs on one hand and Palestinian/Lebanese/Syrian urbans and rurals is very extreme. Those jordanian-jordanians that are similar to palestinians are so because they are Palestinians and Syrians in origin, its just that they came to jordan before 1948, such as those from al salt as an example so they werent included with the refugees. I respect all people but i dont feel that Palestinians are the same people as us, just like i dont feel the lebanese are the same as us. This doesnt mean im a racist or anything. I also feel the circassians and cherkessi are very diffirent from us but i dont hate them.
Nadim, just to give you an example of Palestinians in the jordanian government. The al Rifai family. The prime minister Samir al Rifai is one of them. They are Palestinians hailing from Safad. There is representation of Palestinians in the government.
If samir and his father run for fair, free and transparent election in Jordan , those two dudes would not receive more than half percent of Palestinian votes, they were imposed on all of us including you karaki, and they don’t represent any of Palestinians than I know of, not yesterday and not today.
Just like all the kings and presidents of Arab countries, they do’t represent nobody but themselves ..
@Karaki
Of Syrian or Palestinians,which explains the aggressive campaign by the so called e-media on him the moment he was appointed, they didn’t even bother with the 100 grace period
Now, Rifai and others belong to one elite group,so whatever their origin is does not matter.
Again,I don’t care even if my cousin is appointed PM,and he is a capitalist,after signing contracts,making the country one big company of his by privatizing everything, I would go for the clean and decent person,even if he is a neutralized Chinese who lived in Jordan for years.
I hope the message is clear.
To the The Free Jordanian
الØكومة ليس عملها إن تعلم الناس الوØدة الوطنية، هذه مسؤليتنا إنا Ùˆ أنت إن نبدأ ÙÙŠ البيت ØŒ Ùˆ من ثم إلى الشارع ،وجلسات النميمة ،و المناسبات الخاصة Ùˆ العامة ،هذا عمل تطوعي ØŒ أما أن نجلس طول الوقت نندب Øضنا هذا هروب من المسؤلية وأن لا تكون طريقة معيشتنا على سياسات خير طريق إلى الدÙاع هي الهجوم
Øميدي
Øميد لم تجبني على السوأل الذي طرØته ،بدايا، لم ولن تتØقق ÙˆØدة ÙÙŠ معضم الدول أن كانت شرقية أو غربية وهذا شيئ جيد ÙÙŠ تقديري ØŒ ÙÙŠ كثير من الأØيان “الوØدة” تقود الى وطنيه وقوميه عمياء قد توأدي الى كوارث سياسيه واقتصاديه واجتماعيه ØŒ وهناك العديد من الامثلة التي تبرهن على ما أطرØÙ‡ ØŒ على سبيل المثال ØŒ المانيا النازيه، هتلر عمل على توØيد المانيا وطنيا وقوميا Ùكانت النتيجه من أكبر الكوارث السياسيه ÙÙŠ العالم ØŒ أنضر الى الدولة الصهيونيه وكي٠أستعملت “الوØدة الوطنيه القوميه من أجل بناء دولة تمØورت على العنصريه المقيتة والتي ستكون الخنØر المميت لتلك الكيان العنصري… Ø£Ùريقيا الجنوبيه عمدت على توØيد البيض لاأكثر من ١٠٠عام – والنتيجه كانت كارثيه بكل المقايس ليس عندي الوقت الكاÙÙŠ للخوض ÙÙŠ موضوع شديد التعقيد ،كل ما أقوله بأن الوØدة ليست صمام الأمان Ù„ØÙ„ المشاكل المتراكمه والمزمنه ÙÙŠ دولة مثل الأردن، المشكلة أكبر من ذلك
“Nadim, just to give you an example of Palestinians in the jordanian government. The al Rifai family. The prime minister Samir al Rifai is one of them. They are Palestinians hailing from Safad. There is representation of Palestinians in the government”
so versus 50+% of population 10% representation in parliament and 3-4 ministers out of 31 in government is considered a “fair” representation under which proportional representation methodology specifically?
why dance around the subject? just admit one half of the country are deemed “second class” citizens when it comes to political rights (until palestine conflict is resolved next century or so) and “zero class” when it comes to public sector privilegies, admit this will NEVER change, and lets move on…stupid arguments like “look at rifai, look at awadalla bla bla” wont get us anywhere when we are talking about “systematic” discrimination of millions of people…