So it’s becoming a bigger story now on the blogosphere, Iraqis in a prison at the Queen Alia Airport, where they are interrogated for hours, whipped by the evil Jordanians, then put in a cage with lions and those who are lucky enough to survive the ordeal are sent back to Iraq to die. It took me a while to decide if I should write this post and in the absence of few people willing to talk about and at the risk of having Jordanians appear complacent about the issue, I thought I’d give a Jordanian perspective on things.
Let me clear one thing up, I think the fact that Iraqis are being occupied and being slaughtered everyday by various parties is horrendous. I think the fact that so many of them have been forced to leave is also horrendous. I think the fact that Jordan has opened its borders to our brothers in the east for well over a decade now, throughout their various times of strife, has been a great honor. There’s a little pan-Arabism still left in all of us yet.
I find it just as horrendous that people are only NOW waking up to the fact that there is a problem.
Reading blog posts that say “Shame on you Jordan” or what have you, as if Jordanians all got together and conspired to make life a living hell for Iraqis, has been a pretty horrendous sight unto its own. In these situations its usually our security forces that get the flak, and then of course its the rest of us.
Silly Bahraini Girl even went so far as to say:
From the bottom of my heart – shame on you Jordan. Thanks for showing your true face!
I should point out that this isn’t a public policy, nor is it a social element. It’s like the difference between hating Americans and hating American foreign policy. So “shame on Jordan” entails a whole social aspect to it that is as valid as saying “Zarqawi, the Jordanian terrorist”; he was just a terrorist.
I also want to point out that for those who may be shocked by the “photographic evidence”, that what some have lovingly dubbed a “prison”, well, that’s actually our airport. It’s pretty bad; we know. We have to sit on those same chairs, and don’t even get me started on passport control. If Iraqis were put in a real Jordanian jail, they would have a whole other story to tell.
Back to the issue. Most have rushed to the defense of Iraqis, which is fine. But I am surprised that no one even bothered looking at it from the Jordanian angle, which I’m guessing is just too difficult to do without receiving any amount of flak.
I’m sorry that when Iraqis come to Jordan there isn’t a red carpet waiting for them and a palace hall with a golden buffet of exotic fruits. And to expect thousands of people coming in from a war torn country to be given the exact same treatment as that of a tourist, then you must be out of your frikin mind.
This is a country of about 5.6 million people that has extremely limited resources. We are in the top 10 list of countries in the world with the least water resources.
In 4 years we’ve had just about 1 million Iraqis come into the country. One million.
They don’t live in refugee camps they live in urban areas, predominantly the capital Amman, which is home to about 2.3 million Jordanians. In other words, nearly one third of the city is Iraqi.
Most Jordanians make about 150JDs ($211) per month. With Iraqis in the country (and their high level of consumption) inflation is at a record high for Jordan, with purchasing power virtually eroding that 150JDs to dust. Most Jordanians are poorer than they were 5 years ago before the war started.
Food prices have gone up. The most common staple, tomatoes, have gone from 30piasters to 70piasters in only 2-3 years. Petrol has increased, as has electricity and water (for those who still manage to get it pumped to their home once a week). Natural gas, which pretty much keep Jordanians alive by either heating their bodies or their food, has gone from roughly 2JDs to about 4.25JDs. Universities classrooms are growing larger and larger, as will our public schools this year (which are already ailing), now that Iraqi children will be allowed to enter, regardless of their parent’s residency status.
Not to mention the burden on other infrastructure that includes sewage, waste disposal, health, education, roads, government services and yes, our security apparatus.
It is no secret that the MAIN thing that has kept Jordan as stable as it has been in a region that is a mess, has been the security apparatus. It is a sector experiencing unprecedented strain. They have no way of vetting each and every Iraqi, who despite decreasing numbers in the past few months due to stricter border controls, are still arriving in high numbers for a country the size of Jordan. Roughly 50,000 Iraqis flow in and out of the three main entry points, Karameh, Jabir and Queen Alia airport every single day, with the emphasis on the latter. At the airport, there are more resources dedicated to Iraqis than there are to Jordanians or any other nationality for that matter. That’s just how big this is.
This is a security apparatus that deals with a country in turmoil next door. To say nothing of Palestine and Lebanon, the former of which has had a lot Palestinians forcefully expelled to Jordan, the latter of which saw thousands of Lebanese invading Amman last summer; so we’ve had some experience with this.
There are Sunnis who want to kill Shittes living in Jordan and there are Shittes who want to kill Sunnis living in Jordan. There are hundreds of cases of fake passports being issued in Iraq. There is smuggling of millions of dollars to be laundered in Jordanian banks. There are weapons being transported. Thousands of cars entering and exiting. There are Iraqis inside Jordan who are receiving daily threats from other Iraqis; sending our security forces on wild goose hunts. Saddam-loyalists and people whose families were killed by Saddam live in the same 10kilometer radius. This is to say nothing of so many (if not most) Iraqis who are here illegally as well as those (most) who are not allowed to work (except in illegal things such as drugs and prostitution, both of which are on the rise), which is something the international community as well as NGOs have been quick to chastise us for (I assure you, we appreciate the joke of employing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in a country with 33% unemployment). To say nothing of Iraqis who seem to come and go between Iraq and Jordan as if there isn’t a war going on; thus inevitably raising suspicion.
Not to mention that there are Iraqi security forces being trained in Jordan in an effort to send them back to establish some sense of stability in their country, but in the meanwhile, making us the biggest target outside Iraq.
Police forces in Amman have massively increased not to mention overworked, underpaid, and overwhelmed. The average policeman in Jordan makes around 210JDs (nearly $300) a month. Hotels, malls, buildings, ministries, even restaurants (specifically those with a lot of Iraqi customers) all require a massive allocation of security resources.
Jordanians are paying higher taxes to fund these resources as security has never been more relevant, especially in the post Amman bombings era. Foreign aid, specifically from the coalition forces, has been peanuts; laughable, according to most experts in the field.
The influx of Iraqis has virtually destroyed any hope of the average Jordanian becoming a home owner.
And for those who argue investments, I need not remind you that most investments are coming from Kuwait, France and the Gulf, as opposed to Iraqis who have invested fairly little in Jordan (mostly by way of cafes and restaurants they can sell quickly). Iraqis with the most money have taken to laundering a great deal of it (inspiring an anti-money laundering law that has just gone into effect). What little has been invested has also been outdone by the level of consumption.
This is not a complaint, this is our reality and I am merely stating it as is. Jordanians stuck in traffic know it. Jordanians who are barely managing to pay bills and taxes know it. Jordanians who have to have their cars checked and then go through a metal detector just to get some bread from the local Safeway, know it too.
People are looking at Iraqis coming into Jordan as if they are tourists. They’re not. They shouldn’t be treated as tourists. They are part of a humanitarian crisis that the world has turned its back on once again.
We live in this strange international arena where every one is so quick to chastise Jordan, heck, even Jordanians, as is we started the war. The international arena whose members, specifically its first world members, have done little to take in Iraqis. All the Iraqis in Jordan who are waiting for asylum in the US, UK, Canada, and all the western nations that claimed there were weapons of mass destruction and that Iraqis need to be freed of tyranny.
Unless the international community, including Arabs, begin to step up to the plate by taking in Iraqis, or giving us a whole lot of funding, then I don’t think any one is in a position to pick on Jordan.
This is by no way an excuse for any unnecessary mistreatment Iraqis may receive at our airport. But this isn’t profiling just for the sake of discrimination. This is an influx of people who have little else where to go. There’s already a million of them in Jordan and if there was a policy to hate on them then our borders would’ve been sealed shut (as many borders around the world were) in March 2003.
Jordan can easily let down its guard, by allowing any Iraqi in without so much as looking at his or her passport; this would save us a whole lot of money. But what does that entail when we, as the biggest target outside Iraq who happen to live right next to it, implement such a policy. We put the lives of our citizens at risk and the lives of a million Iraqis inside the country at risk.
This not your everyday refugees-dressed-in-rags situation. They’re not ushered into camps for UNRWA and the UNHCR to deal with. They are not “out of sight, out of mind” (although I guess they are for the rest of the world). They are our next door neighbors here in Amman. This is a completely different situation, which few seem to have fully grasped.
Iraqis are not staying here for a few months. They’ve been here since 2003. Many have been here since the first Gulf War. This is a crisis that will not end with Jordan expelling Iraqis but ONLY and ONLY IF there is stability in Iraq, followed by a voluntary return of Iraqis to their homeland. And that situation isn’t happening any time soon with the current occupation, rise of terrorism, and an Iraqi government that is essentially a myth.
But hey, I’m a reasonable man.
If there is a country out there that feels it can do a better job then go ahead, raise your hand. Are you a wealthy Arab nation with a lot of room to spare? Feel free to put the “we are open” sign up at your borders. If I was Iraqi, I would be more than happy at all the choices the international, particularly the Arab world, has offered me as a way of empathizing and sympathizing with my situation.
As for us…
I would be ashamed of any Jordanian who ever mistreated an Iraqi brother out of personal spite. But I am proud of our security forces for keeping both my family safe as well as the Iraqis living next door safe, in the context of one of the most difficult and turbulent times in our history.
And I am not, nor will I ever be, ashamed to be a Jordanian.
p.s. please don’t leave me idiotic comments about how this post is blaming Iraqis for everything. that’s frankly an idiotic conclusion that will only serve to embarrass whoever makes such an absurd remark.
Yeah, it’s all the Iraqis fault blah blah blah.
Nothing to say about all the Jordanians going into Iraq to blow Iraqis up, though.
“Yeah, it’s all the Iraqis fault blah blah blah.”
if that’s what your tunnel vision of a mind managed to conclude from my post, then you’re comment is a frightening insight into how idiotic your powers of observation are.
good luck with that
Yes Naseem, hosting Iraqis in our country has not been a very rosy reality, in fact it has been hard for us. When I said that I am ashamed of being Jordanian at that moment, I am looking at this issue from the point of view of a Jordanian person. Look at it this way: You have a million Iraqis in Jordan. You treat THEIR relatives in an uncivilized way, and then you have one million people that will eventually burst in anger. This is just putting Iraqis in a pressure cooker; do you really want that to happen? In fact, that is just asking for trouble to happen. Also, if you want to look at things from a Jordanian angle, you have to look at it from a whole Middle Eastern point of view. It’s not like we’re a self-sufficient island in the middle of a peaceful neighborhood. It’s the total opposite of that, so when we treat Iraqis that way, we need to take into consideration the consequences of our actions.
What I’m trying to say here, is that I am well aware of our policemen in Jordan, and how rude they can be. That sort of approach, is not acceptable by any standards. You were ranting about how Americans gave you a headache when you wanted to give a lecture in the States. I’m sure that doesn’t make you feel so great, now put yourself in the shoes of those people. These are people for God’s sake, people that fled their countries; isn’t that the same story for about 60 percent of the population? (Palestinians, Circassians, Chechens, Armenians, Syrians). These are the very same groups that helped build Jordan. I don’t see, why can’t we welcome these Iraqis?
Again, this is when you need to use common sense. There is a difference between asking, or interrogating a traveler, and between insulting that person. You can always get the information you need without having to abuse the person.
As for the rise in property and land, I don’t think it is not totally caused by Iraqis. When the stock market boom in 2005 took place, more Jordanians had more cash on hands, because they decided to sell more stocks that were reaching historical highs. When everybody is selling stocks at the market, that means that the market is bound to go down. But luckily, the market was able to recover to its normal level before the boom, thanks to several IPOs and the opening of new banks that were able to offer loans at lower interest rates. Back to Jordanians having more cash at hands. So these Jordanians needed to invest their money, some did so by investing in land, and some in real estate. What helped the real estate market spur, is that there were rumors spreading that the government will charge heftier taxes on vacant land plots. So that helped accelerate the real estate market. Of course that coincided with the influx of Iraqis pouring into Jordan and that further pushed the market. Not to mention that thanks to the real estate boom, there was more demand on cement and aluminum and other building materials, which further drove up expenses to build, which means that the developers need to charge higher prices to cover their profit margins.
Back to inflation. Here’s what I think happened: Prices started going up because the Jordanian Dinar is pegged to the American Dollar. While the Euro and the Sterling Pound were going up strong, meaning that the Dollar became weaker against these two currencies, and by extension, that the JD is weaker to the Euro and the Pound. That means that European exports to Jordanian come at a higher price to Jordanians, and that Jordanian exports to Europe (which mainly consists of food products, fertilizers and pharmaceuticals) comes at a cheaper price. Meaning that farmers in Jordan started to lose money, because they are selling at a cheaper price to Europe, so to compensate for that, farmers started selling their produce at higher prices to the Jordanian market. You have to also factor in the hike in oil prices of course. I’m not saying that Iraqis had nothing to do with inflation, but they aren’t the sole reason behind it. Inflation happens for a collective of reasons, and not just one.
Gulfians perceive reality from al Jazeera only, that’s why the Shame on you superficial post .
Thanks for the great article : is a precious insight .
I reproduced part of it on my blog for a post, hope you don’t mind .
Hat tip and a kiss on both cheeks from chicago to amman, I had my share of insults and a blog entry made me a CIA agent who blogs to destroy pan arabism.
God bless jordan, and god bless our security forces, jordan still has men who will give up their life for our security.
I have one question:
How many refugees did Iran, kuwait, UAE, KSA, turkey, USA, UK, etc?
One more thing, the “aid” that we request from Iraq is not a gift it is a right for those refugees who live in jordan, the money that we will get will go to provide them with services that they should get in Iraq, Iraq is not poor, billions and billions disappear each year, so the anger and hate should be targeted toward the people who created this mess.
The process of iraqis entering jordan should be revised, and I think they are working on it now which is too little too late, they should issue visas to enter jordan from Iraq. Iraq itself had closed it’s border with jordan, jordanians and palastenians were slaughtered in the streets and their bodies were dragged all over the streets, but we didn’t say shame on you iraqies! The jordanian embassy was bombed, and yet we didn’t say shame on you iraqies! hundreds of jordanian trucj drivers were killed or kidnapped and yet we didn’t say shame on you iraqies! Yesterday the Iraqi president said that only jordan and kuwait are cooperating with iraq, and yet we didn’t say thank you jordan!
If the government doesn’t tackle this issue quickly resentment will sky rocket and then being sorry will do us no good..
what is shameful is that the Jordanian media says nothing at all.. I contacted some people in jordanian newspapers, they told me this story is off limits..
I agree with you NAS. I mean what do people expect? Are they stupid? Do people around the world try to feed their neighbours before they feed themselves and their families? NO. Everybody has to look after himself first then after others. Jordan has to prioritize JORDANIANS first, then look after others. I am all for helping people in need but you have to draw the line somewhere. I live in a small town in Sweden and Sweden has taken in many refugees in the past years which is good, but to be honest with you I think that they have to stop. All the foreigners that have settled in our town has ruined it, I mean they come to a new country and pretend as if it is their own country. I as a foreigner think that it is enough with accepting foreigners. When you live in another mans house, you follow his rules and not make your own, because if you start to make you own rules, it won’t be long until you take over the house. I don’t think that Jordan should have accepted so many Iraqis, they should have let other countries take their share as well. Saudi Arabia hasn’t done shit and they are one of the richest countries. I think that Jordan has to do something about the hostile situation ASAP. Because if they don’t maybe there will be a Civil War between sunnis and shittes, iraqis and jordanian/palestinians. The palestinians that came to Jordan a long time ago have become a part of the contry, they are jordanians. Jordan accepted them, but I don’t think that Jordan should do the same for the Iraqis, because they are too many and if they do become jordanians, we will destroy ourselves. We don’t have the resources or the space for it. Don’t get me wrong I don’t have anything against Iraqis, my best friends are iraqis, but I have to look after my contry first then try to look after others.
Maybe the problem is that everyone in the Arab world is so busy thinking of “first me and my people before I worry about anyone else.” And that’s fine, except that it’s not the most responsible mentality to have towards human kind in times like these. I just don’t see what the difference is between a Jordanian and myself, or an Iraqi any myself. I identify with all Arabs. Maybe because I live in the West and haven’t been exposed to that many Arabs so I have a romanticized dream of what we are supposed to be like and how we are supposed to feel for one another. But I don’t see Iraqis or Palestinians or Lebanese or anyone else as “others” I see them as an extension of myself and my family. So when I see them being bombed and starved and humiliated I can’t dismiss it so easily. Honestly, I am a little shocked at the some of the reaction on the blogs about this issue. Honestly how can you look at a refugee, someone that has been completely uprooted and who more likely than not has been through mind chilling trauma, how can you look at them when they speak your language and look just like you and think, “Jordanians, first.”
I agree with Balqis, such an insightful article. I wasn’t able of replying properly myself to her post but you maintained your nerves and made this excellent post.
I don’t blame Iraqis for everything, but I would be lying to myself and the people to say that their ‘visits’ to Jordan aren’t having a negative impact on the Jordanian population.
thanks for that post Nas
Allah Ywafgak 🙂
It’s utterly appalling that you are praising a security and intelligence apparatus that instills a culture of fear so that a dynasty regime can continue oppressive practices (authoritarianism and totalitarianism are inherently oppressive, as are the torture, imprisonment without charge, and other human rights abuses necessary for the dog Abdullah to maintain such a hereditary leadership).
At least I can agree with you that directing anger towards “Jordan” or “Jordanians” is wrong. It should be directed to the criminal Abdullah and his security/intelligence apparatus.
“I mean what do people expect?”
Compassion for people that have been uprooted and for them to be treated with dignity. For you and your security forces to treat them the way you want to be treated.
“Are they stupid?”
If being a non-Iraqi Arab that cares about the plight of Iraqis makes me stupid then I will wear my dunce hat with pride.
“Do people around the world try to feed their neighbours before they feed themselves and their families?”
No. And that is a problem. Nobody cares about anybody and that’s how we can look away while millions of people starve, literally. Or while all sorts of human tragedies befall people all over the world. Because the power structure in each and every single country relies on the fact that most people will just look out for their own so they know that there will never be a collective response of global outrage when injustice occurs.
“NO. Everybody has to look after himself first then after others. Jordan has to prioritize JORDANIANS first, then look after others.”
You sound like the crazy Americans do when they talk about immigration.
“I am all for helping people in need but you have to draw the line somewhere. I live in a small town in Sweden and Sweden has taken in many refugees in the past years which is good, but to be honest with you I think that they have to stop. All the foreigners that have settled in our town has ruined it, I mean they come to a new country and pretend as if it is their own country.”
Are you talking about the Iraqi refugees in Switzerland? You sound so racist and classist. Are you Arab? If so aren’t you an immigrant as well? So how is it “your town” and what gives you the right to have settled there and not some other new immigrants?
“I as a foreigner think that it is enough with accepting foreigners. When you live in another mans house, you follow his rules and not make your own, because if you start to make you own rules, it won’t be long until you take over the house.”
And you have decided that you will follow the rules of the land in Switzerland but khalas the Iraqis will not? Why do you think you are better than them?
The rest of what you say is just pure hated. I’m frankly appalled, really. I wish that I would have never ventured into the Jordanian blogging world because I much preferred the ignorance of living in bliss and not knowing the type of diseased mentality that exists here.
Pheras: “You treat THEIR relatives in an uncivilized way, and then you have one million people that will eventually burst in anger. This is just putting Iraqis in a pressure cooker; do you really want that to happen?”
given the current situation in Jordan, the everyday Jordanian is ALREADY in a pressure cooker. One that is social, political and more importantly economical.
“Again, this is when you need to use common sense. There is a difference between asking, or interrogating a traveler, and between insulting that person. You can always get the information you need without having to abuse the person.”
I completely agree, and again I am against the mistreatment of Iraqis. what I’m doing in this post is acknowledging our shortfalls in a certain context that no one seems to be considering. Everyone seems to think that it’s been all roses for Jordan when in reality its been all thorns.
moreover, that sort of bureaucratic mistreatment happens everywhere; even in countries that dont have to deal with so many people coming in during a small time frame with limited resources on the ground prepared to handle it.
but there is an underlying suggestion here that Jordanians are deliberately mistreating Iraqis under the guise of a specific policy; which i find to be retarded.
As for real estate and inflation. You pointed to various other elements which I have always taken into account, since yes, not one party is to blame and I am not blaming Iraqis here. But there is no doubt that the main driving force between an increase in prices and an increase in real estate prices has been the presence of Iraqis in Jordan. This is frankly undeniable and to assume that it would’ve happened anyways in their absence is absurd. And almost any element you can mention can be tied to their presence in Jordan. It’s simple supply and demand.
Again, this is not a blame game as much as it is pointing out a reality.
Theres a big difference
Rami: “what is shameful is that the Jordanian media says nothing at all.. I contacted some people in jordanian newspapers, they told me this story is off limits..”
I agree, it is shameful. I expect however that there are a lot of red lines since its a security matter.
Muhammad: “I agree with you NAS. I mean what do people expect? Are they stupid? Do people around the world try to feed their neighbors before they feed themselves and their families? NO. Everybody has to look after himself first then after others. Jordan has to prioritize JORDANIANS first, then look after others.”
thanks for the comment Muhammad although I can’t exactly agree with that notion; it’s not representative of what I was trying to get across. The reason we are concerned with Jordan here is because like it or not, it has become a safe haven for Iraqis. This is the reality of the situation. For it to continue to be such a place there needs to be an emphasis on securing that status quo. So its not a matter of seeing ourselves as a priority above our own brothers, but translating it into the need to look after both priorities that are beneficial to both parties, especially in an environment that makes that so difficult to do.
Fadi: “It’s utterly appalling that you are praising a security and intelligence apparatus that instills a culture of fear so that a dynasty regime can continue oppressive practices”
If you’re under the impression that Jordanians live in fear then you’ve obviously taken a wrong turn at the border. And I say this with all due respect to you, a member of a blog I actually love, but on this blog…despite your personal politics and fanfare history…its King Abdullah. Calling him a criminal just makes you seem redundant at best, childish at worst.
Why would I refer to the criminal Abdullah as a King. It’s the 21st century, isn’t it time that you abandon this notion that leadership is a birthright? I defer to logic when I refer to Abdullah as a criminal. Abdullah commits crimes against humanity (I dare you to contest this). Thus, Abdullah is a criminal. If you find calling a spade a spade to be juvenile, so be it (though I’m not quite sure how it is redundant, I don’t think you really thought that one through).
Nonetheless, I have met plenty of Jordanian citizens who do not voice protest against the policies of the state out of a fear of state reprisal. If you want to pretend that freedom of expression, organization, speach, etc exist, I can cite for you plenty of objective sources and examples to the contrary.
P.S.
I thank you for the kind words on my blog. I must disclaim of course that my opinions are mine alone and do not represent those of the other contributors. We cherish a diversity of opinions. I wish I could say the same about the regimes.
“Why would I refer to the criminal Abdullah as a King”
my emphasis was on this blog. you can write a post about the king on your own blog, but on this blog there is a sense of respect for the monarchy. moreover, there is a commenting policy on this blog. you dont have to like it and you dont have to agree with it. but by commenting you are showing a willingness to respect it. if you cant meet that simple expectation in the very least, then quitting while you’re ahead is a good way to go. in the meantime, please dont act like the kid who left the cave and came back to share his “enlightenment” with the rest of us living in the darkness.
as for being redundant, its the same old crap thats been spit out in the same circles (is what I meant, and I think you already knew that but you can pretend that you dont if that helps).
in any case, these comments and accusations have absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter of this post.
Pheras a skim understanding of currency markets doesn’t really help. thats regarding the last paragraph take a look at this
export partners
US 25.3%, Iraq 17%, India 8.1%, Saudi Arabia 5.8%, Syria 4.7% (2006)
Europe who ?? if more than 60% of exports are against pegged currency then there goes the less purchasing power.
our share in EU trade is 0.03% in imports (thats to the EU and 0.2% in exports(from EU to jordan)
what happened there is that money supply increase and the commodities available remained the same so yes simply prices will increase. now the stock market might have a hand in it but it was iraqis that share the biggest part of the responsibility pie.
as for this article NAS; if the people you are addressing listen to reason then we would have argued, if they were not 120% with the invasion then u would have argued. u know how much the US took out of the refugees, they gladly celebrated with all the whistles and bells they could muster that they are allowing …. wait for it, here it comes …. 7,000 iraqis hurray!
you know what is the next wave of slander, jordanian terrorist are the main cause of war and instability in iraq. based on the laws of attraction with so many people repeating that phrase it should be coming true right now, now lets go pray it will double the chances of that happening.
“Lubu % Peace”
ENJOY
ps. get over the love the world message for u have certainly kicked out the refugees in your country by the batches back in 1959.
bambam: sorry, i didn’t quite get the meaning of your comment. i think something got lost in the translation of you writing it and me saying it out loud perhaps? can you clarify for me please?
Nas
your post reminds Ida Magli articles, an Italian anthropologist She often writes against Arabisation of Europe She is not racist [though appears so] but her anger is the result of wrong policies of governments that want to push for integration at any cost
http://www.italianiliberi.it/Edito07/nazione130707.html
Naseem, yes I agree with you that its not a blaming game, and I agree with you on every problem, that we as Jordanians are facing today. I have to commute to work and many places every single day, and I am stuck in traffic as well, and I find my paycheck magically gone at the end of the month as well, and I do share in on your concerns.
The bottom line Naseem is, that I don’t want Jordan to turn into a country that says: “Well, I need to think of my interests first, and by all means necessary, I will achieve what’s for my interest.” and for one reason only, that is purely a capitalist way of thinking, and sadly, we Jordanians are beginning to think that way. I don’t want Jordan to be a greedy capitalist regime. What I’m trying to say, is that we as Arabs, need to reach some form of solidarity with each other, and we really need to look out for each other, and not isolate ourselves in our own little worlds. You are right, we do need help since we have limited resources, but this is where the other Arab nations come in to provide aid.
It basically boils down to this: Abuse will not tolerated on Jordanian soil. Our army troops are called the “Arab Army” for a specific reason. King Hussein’s vision was to always open our land for Arabs, and to always stand in the forefront to help protect other Arab nations. But we seem to have forgotten all that, and that truly upsets me. Nobody deserves to be treated like that, especially when its an Arab on Jordanian soil.
i am glad someone agress with me that the editor of global voices cannot read posts!
i have not read the whole post, i intend to soon.
i am doing a research on “why-really” the Syrians have racist remarks against the iraqi refugees, i need to go to jordan to see for myself, i have to meet both sides.
To be strong is to be able to accept criticism and to be able to look within if there are mistakes. When someone criticizes Jordan we don’t need to get defensive. In social interaction, it is well known that the people who are always defensive are the ones who have something to hide, or have an inferiority complex. Now why should we, as Jordanians be defensive. The facts don’t lie, Jordan is holds 1 million Iraqis with love and compassion, everyone who lives in Amman has Iraqi friends, coworkers or neighbors. So there is nothing to hide in that regard. Patriotism means protecting Jordan from its enemies, both internal and external, in other words, if something unjust has been done in the name of Jordanians , then we should stand against it. Nas all your points are valid , so are Pheras’s points, I dont see a conflict of interests, the best response to the story of the Iraqi who was mistreated “supposedly”, is to look into it, to find the facts. If he was mistreated then yes…SHAME ON US…..if what he said was true then yes SHAME ON US A MILLION TIMES …..it is really not a strong argument for us to equate human suffering with everyday inconveniences.
Mohannad, do you feel proud of someone who berates people who are under his whims? DO you feel proud when a Jordanian security official treats people unprofessionally and with such attitude? I know the answers from my side… HELL NO, its embarrassing at a human level and at a professional level. Jordan needs to be strong in the face of adversity, we need to be Nashama inside and out. I feel proud of our forces when they help bring down bastards like Zarqawi for example, but Hell no I will never endorse the fascist attitude towards Iraqis in our airports, this is not us and this is not the Jordanian way, we always say we are Nashama think of the word and its connotations,, the image of a Nashmi, don’t let blind patriotism hurt our country.
We should hold the security personnel in airports and on borders to the highest of standards, this is good for “the today” and for “the tomorrow” of Jordan.
ياللخزيوالعار علينا وعليهده الØÂكومه، هذا ما ÙŠØÂصل لكل مواطنأردنيعندما يدهب اليمØÂطه منمØÂطات الشرطه،بتبهدل وتنقل قيمه وبنضرب ÙƒÙÂو٠عليوجهه أكثر منسعر رأسه،ولله شايÙÂكوا مندهشينكثير عليهل القصه،طيب مهوا المواطنألاردنيبوكل عشرينÙÂلقه قبل ما يكتب Ø£ÙÂاتو ÙÂيمغاÙÂر الشرطه،ÙÂما بالكوا مواطنعراقي.
يا أخوانيوأخواتي،أرجوكم ÙÂيالتمعنبما ÙŠØÂصل للمواطنألاردنيقبل البدء النقاش عنالعراقيين،هناك مثل عربيأصيل يقول”ÙÂاقدالشئ لا يعطيه”،تعالو نتكلم عنØÂقوق المواطنألاردنياليملتعنأبو أبوه قبل الØÂديث عنØÂقوق العراقيينكا جيرانومواطنينعرب …
Markus:
thank you for the comment. Allow me to clarify something. this was not in response to any specific post, especially by Pheras (and I think he knows that), but rather to the reaction of the blogosphere that has shown no desire to either be objective nor put things in their proper context.
Moreover, there is a general sentiment that anything one person does is something that reflects the policy of an entire population. Like it’s not enough Zarqawi is a terrorist but that he is a Jordanian terrorist thus the implication that we are a nation of terrorists or condone his actions. It’s along those lines.
I have heard stories from Iraqis firsthand of their feeling of being discriminated here and there, in various minor situations some of which may be exaggerated or misconstrued and some of which are likely to be true. But even THESE people (for the most part) don’t make the mistake of saying “Jordanians”.
No one can deny that in any society there are always individuals that act out of the normal social frame. Whether they are thieves or they are people who discriminate, we don’t paint the entire society they come from as being thieves, terrorists, and or discriminatory.
This is to say nothing of the fact that public servants in Jordan aren’t exactly known for their hospitality when it comes to Jordanians let alone Iraqis. But that’s besides the point.
My point is that its wrong to act like this is a “Jordanian” thing, as if hating Iraqis was something inherent about us when in truth, next to Palestinians, Iraqis are historically, socially, politically and economically, the most tied Arabs to Jordan and Jordanians and no one on the ground can deny that.
Moreover, it is even worse, if not absurd, to make the insinuation that this is flat out a government policy directed at discriminating, or as some have chosen to (mis)put it, “torturing” Iraqis.
Why didn’t you stick to those red lines yourself Nas? I see to several of your points, but I am disappointed that you echo the government rhetorics, that eventually repress Jordanians just as much…
Really nice post, keep it up!
This is the first post about the “torture” of Iraqi citizens at QAIA that makes sense! good job Nas!
I was only wondering when Jordan’s authorities will finally understand that we are not able to manage the situation, there are 1,000,000 Iraqi refugees in our country, representing something like 20% of the population, and rather than bringing down the influx of immigrates from Iraq, what we do? We allow them free access to Jordanian schools, a very costly decision that will clearly reflect on the taxes we pay!
I’m waiting when the government will take the brave decision of closing our eastern borders? A country like the US, who is really the main cause of all Iraqi problems, admitted only 7000 Iraqis this year, is it wrong to take as example?
PS: I’m against any kind of abuse or mistreatment, but I think the story was a little exaggerated and let’s say that most of Iraqis here feel good and they are happy of their residence in Jordan.
rami:
well first of all this is a blog, not the national media so i am not obligated to observe those same lines. that being said, i agree that there are things that should come with a close lid due to security measures. the problem with jordan, as was reflected in the recent access to information law, is that everything has red lines on it, thus the “security” reason has become an overused excuse.
for me, this specific case of the airport is one that should’ve been highlighted in the media for the sake of accountability as well as a way of making our own case for support.
second of all i’m not echoing any rhetoric; my views on this or any other government in the past, are pretty clear on this blog.
I’m merely pointing out a reality that everyone is aware of and everyone should be made aware of.
Markus,
Let me say this for the 1000 times, the mistreatment is unacceptable, and I am sure things will be done to ensure it will not happen again, but the issue has more to it that being brothers, nas made several good points, and this nashmi who is apid maybe 200 JD and he has to deal with hundreds of cases daily, so no one has the right to blame him, actually all of us must thank those people who because of them we have something called security which people come to. And to make the things more clear, for me no jordanian should pay the price for the cooruption of the government of iraq, and I am sure that iraqis who reside in jordan are happy with th security measyre that we have because after all it is them whom we are protecting.
And regarding Iraq, as I said we are with kuwait the only ones that help with anti-terrorism, surprise surprise! Also for being “defnsive”, yes AND HELL YES I will defend jordan , because NO ONE has the right o insult us, and those who insult us are the ones who do NOTHING AT ALL, so they’d better shut up or do something.
I am sure you don’t want to wake up nd hear that an explosion occured in amman, right? If this happens and it turned out than an iraqi was behind it what do you think will happen? Just tell me?
In jordan we have what no one will ever be able to do, and jordanians have more tolerance than any other “nation”, so for those who attack jordan, they have to look at themselves first.
Thanks..
The most reasonable take on the issue by far.. Naseem, thank you!
Naseem sorry if my comment confused u, i’ll try to reduce the noise.
what i said is that this article is addressed to all those people saying those things about jordan, while there was an attempt for a reasonable discussion (this has been going on for about a month now i guess) but essentially the gist of it you have to treat us(iraqis) with open arms and with acceptance now and deal with problems later.
my take is that they have short memory the majority of those people grinned happily about the invasion back then and now turned against it utilizing the same attitude. they are resilient to reasoning and logic which is what u put out on this article (hence the first and only comment from their side here). then they turn back and say that iraq offered the arab world so much the ps was addressing them it is a reminder that after the revolution one of the first things that were done was to expel all the palestinian students out of iraqi universities and out of iraqi and hostility to their presence in iraq so they have to stop will the bs… last time their was a similar refugee situation (palestinian one) no body handled the situation better than Jordan and this is just history repeating its self.
Nas, all I can say is your response to my comment is another reason I respect you, and hence I voted for you in the Best Male Jordnian bloggers beauty contest…respect.
Mohannad,Criticism is not insults, if you think they are the same thing then I am sorry I cannot discuss anything with you. I am Jordanian and I love Jordan too, I don’t need to prove it to anyone thank you very much. Of course I am grateful for what security personnel do for Jordan, but this is their duty before it being their Job, and they are not above the law, if they act unlawfully or unprofessionally then they need to be held accountable, and btw every Jordanian , every engineer and technician, nurse or doctor, janitor or teacher, students, they are all Nashama and they all are building Jordan and driving the wheel of progress, and they are all 3ala rasi.
Notice is my post I did not discuss fighting terrorism, I did not discuss the rights of Iraqis in Jordan, I did not complain about security measures, all I said was a human being that has done nothing wrong does not need to be humiliated and treated like a dog, no matter by whom or where, its wrong, and its shameful, if it happened to you, you would not be defending it I am sure.
Nas, thank you for addressing this issue in a civilized way presenting both sides of the story. So much has been said and written about that make Jordanian look like blood-sucking opportunists who can’t wait for the next war to go off so we can sit back and enjoy the money circulated in our country. At least now we have a source to direct them to.
I have to say, which I forgot to mention earlier that there’s huge deal regarding the man hiding or actually manipulating facts from the officer and not being 100% honest. I mean, this could’ve been what got him into trouble in the first place – not being totally honest and LYING.
I asked a couple of close relatives who do Law and this action could be seriously punished against in court!
Markus,
The demonizng process and putting words in the mouth will not work, I said it is in-humane and wrong, and critisizing is different than insulting, we in jordan are always insulted and we never respond because simply we have manners and original arab traditions, but enough is enough, Bel 3arabi elli 7e6o wa6i kol el nas bterkabo.
Thanks.
I’ve enjoyed this healthy debate, until I reached this hilarious comment, by the very literate Golaniya:
Basically… you claim that the Editor at GV can’t read posts, yet you yourself later state that you did “not read the whole post.” I hope I’m not the only one who can see the steaming irony in your brief rant.
How about you refute her arguments respectfully instead of directly insulting her?!
Obviously we have two who cannot read posts 😉
Amira linked to the post of Iraqis in jail and said “shame on you Jordan” in her typical understanding of posts.
She is an editor of Global voices and she needs to read posts carefully, before generalizing on Jordan altogether. She constantly link to posts she has no idea what they are really, not to mention that she sometimes link to silly posts too.
who am i?
i am a blogger, who did NOT link to this post nor to the original one, and i won’t till i get a better understanding of the picture before jumping to Amira’s and yours hasty conclusions.
when i said i haven’t read the whole post i meant THIS one. cause I need to make a research first.
So she claims to reading the post, made a generalizing flaw, and I was honest enough to say I need to think about it.
but obviously you wouldn’t know the difference.
Golaniya: thanks for commenting however this post has absolutely nothing to do with amria or pheras or anyone i linked to. they were used just as examples for my readers to get a glimpse of the misunderstanding that I personally feel is currently out there on the blogosphere; a misunderstanding I sought to put into context with this very post.
please dont confuse the objective or purpose as an attack or an indirect way of insulting anyone; especially since I not only love Amira’s blog, as well as her being my GV editor, but I also consider her a friend!
so let’s put that to rest and talk about the issue instead 🙂
thanks again.
I intended not to in the first place, this was a critique, and in the blogsphere critique is necessary.
I wanted to comment on SBG’s blog but could not and here is my comment:
Yes shame on Jordan. I suggest that we give you the opportunity to be the hero. What would happen if we direct 750,000 Iraqis to Bahrain instead of Jordan and cause a demographic, economic and cultural shock as we are suffering now? The best solution is to grant or not grant the visa from an embassy in Baghdad, but what a second our embassy was blown apart by the great resistance in Iraq!
One of the basic principles I always try to adhere to is not insulting any Arab country or people, and I advise you to do the same, messenger!
750000 Iraqis in Bahrain? where will you put them? Bahrain’s total area is only 665 km2 !!! 🙂
The embassy was blown up by Zarqawi…..
You are too mature for your own good! Exceptional debate skills. Keep up the great work, my very literate friend!
In our opinion ,lack of real Democracy ,non existence of government accountability ,draconian laws , fears of “others” have contributed to this dilemma.
Nas, I don’t know if you are deliberately trying to misunderstand the issue or you just don’t get it. This is not about security or mass immigration. god knows, Jordan has every right to control its borders. Its all about who you are doing this to and how. Look at the cases – Omar of Iraq the Model going to pick up a visa to America, a wealthy Iraqi businessman trying to get money from his accounts, etc, etc. These are hardly prostitutes and drug addicts pouring across the border to leach cash out of your struggling economy. These are people that need to go that have business to go to and money to spend in Jordan. Apart for turning them away at the border, then why the humiliation? Why single them out and lock them up in a separate room? Food thrown on the floor. Babies denied nappies. Jordan had dreams for being an advanced economy but the blunderbuss approach and plain nastiness of your police brings your country down to the level of cavemen. No, worse, even cavemen had the decency to treat foreigners with more respect. You seem to forget that Iraqi money keeps your economy afloat. In the UK we also have people who complain that immigrants are bringing the economy down. But here we call those people racists.
ANONYMOUS, you have to understand. I am arab but enough is enough. Here in Sweden in a city called Malmö all the foreigners have settled down in one part of the city and F***ED IT UP. Police hardly dare to enter this part, there is a fight there with gunshots and other stuff every other day. It is not only the Iraqis that live in this part of the town, it is arabs, iranians, yugoslavians, russian… all kind of people, but these people have ZERO respect for the country that has accepted them with open arms. Me and my family moved to Sweden more than 10 years ago but we respect Sweden, I don’t go around hating the contry and its inhabitats. I swear to god that if the Swedish government had the chance to throw out every single foreigner from Sweden they wouldn’t have hesitated for one second. It has gotten out of control. There is another city here that has been occupied by Assyrians and they say that in this city they don’t speak swedish, either arabic or syriani. It has gotten out of control. I know that the matter is not as serious in Jordan but to many refugees could f**k up the country for real. And my friend of course I have to look after my self and my country first then look after others and if you haven’t realised this yet my friend that everywhere in the world people look after themselves first, then you are truly stupid and you have landed on the wrong planet. It is the way it is, I know it is sad but that is just the way it is. Jordan comes First.
Nas, you’re saying that if I’m to post a comment here, I must refer to Abdullah as King Abdullah. It’s good to see that censorship is alive and well here!
More, let’s not pretend that the call for democracy is coming from the outside. Those calling for democracy are Arabs themselves, in particular the Arab intellectuals. Nas, your biggest allies in opposing self-representation for Arabs are: 1. the neocons (Bush and co. do not only tolerate the regimes, they openly embrace them – with the exceptions being the disobediant regimes – Syria, Iraq, etc). 2. the orientalists who forward this racist idea that Arabs are incapable of selecting their own leaders.
Yes, calls to end the occupation are also redundant I suppose. And they will continue to be redundant (as will the calls for an end to the regimes and the crimes of the regimes) until the occupation ends.
Finally, why don’t you answer my question. Why do you believe that leadership is a birthright?\
Shame on us indeed. we the Jordanians are really horrible people and iraqi’s should not stand for this, I suggest, no I URGE all iraqi’s in Jordan in light of the terrible treatment they are suffering at the hands of the Jordanian people and the government to sell their properties and real estate and assets and leave to any of the many other countries that are gladly willing to accept them and where they will surely be welcomed with open arms.
As for those iraqi’s who cannot afford to move out, I suggest they ask for help from the many mah other wealthier iraqi residents in Jordan for i’m positive that since iraqis treat each other with such respect, love and humanity, that they’ll rush just like the brothers they are to provide assistance to them to facilitate the move as soon as possible!
Yes, Enough with this Jordanian terrany, time to move to another country or go back to the beloved homeland, iraq, don’t you think?
Naseem, beddak boseh
Thanks Naseem for your insight. There are two sides to every story true and I am happy to see that some people here acknowledge that the treatment of some Iraqis at borders is despicable to say the least.
To add insult to injury, the treatment of many Arabs at Arab borders is despicable too. People of certain Arab nationalities should just visit neighbouring Arab countries to see what I am talking about.
I am sorry my post was taken out of context and seen as an attack on Jordan as a whole and all its people.
But the burning question is that how can security personnel deal with travellers with such venom, if it wasn’t a state policy?
If Jordan was really against the inhumane treatment of people at its airport, then an investigation should be conducted to see whether those men in uniform were acting out of their own accord or whether it is a policy they are implementing.
Throwing food for people with pride as if they were animals is inhumane. Detaining people and not giving them an answer as to why they are being held against their will is against their human rights.
Naseem, I am happy to see your nationalism and concern for your country as well as the way you have responded to my post.
What I wasn’t happy about is the way a commentator attacked me and the work I do, which is separate from my personal blog.
Then again, this is Arab for you. I don’t agree with you in your opinion, so I call you a fat ugly slut.
Thanks for the kind words you have said and see you around.
Regards, Amira
salam
Thanks for the comment. However I think it may be you whose drawn some sort of misunderstanding from my post.
First of all you call our economy a “struggling economy” and then you say it’s Iraqi money that keeps it afloat. Contradiction aside, the economic assessment is just plain wrong.
Second of all, a situation where an influx of thousands from a neighboring country are fleeing from a war is completely different from immigrants coming to the UK and the subsequent anti-immigration dialog that emerges, typically from white xenophobes. And I think you know that.
Third of all, I, nor many Iraqis I personally know, have not seen evidence to support the picture which you (and others who have a similar flair for the dramatics) painted that indicates ALL security forces in Jordan are by default anti-Iraqi, as opposed to a select few irresponsible brutes. And to even push the frames of that picture further to paint us ALL as cavemen. I don’t know how calling us that helps your argument.
Fadi
Yes, cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war. There’s a difference between censoring someone (which I haven’t done by the way) and asking them kindly to respect and observe the commenting policy on their blog. From one blogger to another I think you understand that, and THAT is all that I am asking of you to do here. It’s not splitting the atom, nor is it inventing the wheel, it’s a simple guesture of respect. If you feel you don’t have it in you to be respectful then this isn’t the place to practice.
I agree with the first paragraph, but as for the second, Jordan isn’t being occupied.
I don’t want to play 21 questions but the way I see it, when it comes to leadership your concern with its source overwhelms any concern over legitimacy and support, both of which our King has whether you like it or not, and whether you agree with it or not.
But more importantly, this isn’t a subject I would like to talk about in this thread of comments as it digresses from the real issue at hand. I am attempting to establish some sense of dialouge between Jordanians and Iraqis about this single issue. If you can’t get on board with that simple idea then I don’t know. Write up another post on kabobfest about all the things that are wrong with Jordan. That should keep you busy, if not satisfied, while the rest of us discuss what’s at hand.
thanks
Amira: Thanks for commenting. I wanted to make clear right off the bat that this post wasn’t about you. I used a quote from your post (also linking to it as to offer people context) as merely an example. There are many comments that read along the same lines.
Again, the insinuation that it is state policy is quite absurd. I mean I’m sorry to make it sound so harsh, but considering our situation, considering all the Iraqis that currently reside in Jordan, it is quite the leap towards concluding that security personnel at an airport are acting in accordance with a state policy to essentially “hate on Iraqis”.
Moreover I agree, there should be an investigation and this problem should be fixed as soon as possible. Sadly there are many underhanded events and situations that occur (both in Jordan and everywhere else in the world) that are unbeknowest to the highest authorities and specifically the media, which thus allows for those situations to persist. It’s only after they are uncovered that the situations are investigated; our Jwaidah prison which was closed down a few months ago is one example of that.
I agree it is inhumane, no one disagrees with that. Like I’ve said several times over 1) this is a situation that needs to be fixed, 2) it is wrong to frame this as state policy and 3) it is wrong to frame this as if all Jordanians are to blame.
Thanks Amira, although I should point out that this isn’t about nationalism or even concern for my country. This was both an attempt to frame the problem in the right context which many have either ignorantly or deliberately ignored thus painting a very sad situation, as well as establish some dialouge.
Amira, I apologize for that. I tried to make it clear to those persons what the purpose of this post was and it was certainly not one directed to any specific person.
Thanks again
Nas, sorry I had to quote your post and some replies, but i left credit.
Nas,
Thanks for replying to my humble rant. Would be willing to put a figure on the amount Jordan has saved all these years form the cheap oil it received from Iraq let alone the economic migrants? I am wondering if you read the original posts that started this whole issue. There was Iraq the Model, Healing Iraq, Fayrouz and Last of Iraqis. Four bloggers – OK let me be more specific four pro-American Iraqi bloggers hardly the kind that have it in for Jordan. That many bloggers having the same experience. It would be fair to argue that this is a little more than isolated incidents and leaning towards a deliberate policy.
If I may, let me quote from Iraq The Model:
These are hardly the thousands of destitute Iraqis that flood the borders of Jordan everyday. And this is my point. There are businessmen, there are economic immigrants and there are asylum seekers. And the Jordanian border police have tarred them all with the same brush – and, in your post, so have you. I know it is not racism but it falls back on the same fearmongering. They do not see individuals only dangerous Iraqis.
The border police are the first impression people get of your country. And by mistreating the very Iraqis that should be arguing in favour of your country they are bringing the whole of Jordan down to their level. Let me put it another way. If Dubai treated businessmen entering their country the same way as Jordan did their state will still be no more than a bunch of mud huts around a dirty creek.
Come to think of it…Jordan’s Security personnel at the airport have never been the happiest of people. I remember when myself and wifey got back from our honeymoon, she made me crack up..she said
“yis3idli hal kashra…I missed it”. she said that after spending a couple of weeks in south east asia where everyone is smiling at you all the time.
Back to the issue at hand though, I honestly do not think that Iraqis, espeically those who are pro-war, like the bloggers who commented about the situation at QAIA would mind tightened security measures if they were treated with respect. I mean honestly why do we want to intimidate them? if he was a hardened terrorist do you think he is going to crack under such “pressure” oooh the policeman is staring at me….seriously do you think this will weed out the terrorists for example, anyone who went through Israeli border control, especially at airports know, that the sole purpose of all these measures is to humiliate and thus discourage the subject from returning…thats all there is to it.
Nas, we all know that the Iraqis flooded in after the war broke out and this was done and approved by the Americans,in return we got some benifits in the form of cash and military equipment, training etc as well as some other facilitations here and there. The country reached a point of saturation which caused the strain that we see today on the infrastructure, resources as well as the society. The time came to perform a correction and I think this is what we are seeing today, security measures in the modern world are undercover, we dont see them we dont notice them they are not in your face,this is by definition, I deal with this field through my work and it is mind boggling what you can do with technology, Jordan has some of the top notch technology and knowledge out there by virtue of their proximity and support for the war on “terror”. So what is happening at QAIA has nothing to do with security per-se, it is a correction of the situation in Jordan. call me sentimental, but I can never condone such actions, there are simply better ways for immigration control available today.
i agree with sacretea, this is by far the best, most rational and real take on the issue.
the iraqi flow to dubai has been damaging as well, but i guess this economy can stand it for a while, since most property and real estate developers here live off money laundering! but knowing that jordan’s economy isnt very stable and is a country very scarce on resources, its sad to see some who dont even appreciate the safety they so well indulge in (even abuse) outside their country.
i dint appreciate being kept late in the airport when i came back home (dxb) from amman last year, for security reasons, but i know its what they have to do, to keep this country safe, it isnt coz im palestinian, nor is it coz im comin from jordan, its coz thats what they have to do!
but isnt it ironic? the americans did in IRAQI prisons the unimaginable, yet they dont get a word of wrath?! w jayeen to condemn jordan? just coz u can? donno who shud be ashamed.
naseem, bless!
Very interesting.
Naseem i hope that you are doing well.
I want to thank you for taking the efort to writing this post, and most importantly also to reply for all the comments. I hope that you find it in your heart to read mine and reply to it, too.
First, I agree, the issue of refugees is the responsibility of the international community and also the Iraqi government. they are responsible of directing a big pipe that pumps money into Jordan so Jordan can afford to handle the refugees. Thats a valid point for sure, i have been demanding this myself.
Second, You really dont have the right of practising any sort of censorship if you call this a democratic space, even if in a nice and kind way, you cant ask people to “kindly” not say thigns you disagree with or otherwise not comment, thats just the same as deleting their comments, and just exactly the same sort of practice the government does in Jordan, they sort fo ask all media to “kindly” not write about certain topics. because if they do they would screw them really bad. anyone wants to say he/she hates the king, think he is a criminal, let them say it, its their opinion, and you have no right to deny them saying that, unless of coruse you were an official member of Jordanian security forces of intilegence, then you will have to arrest him for cursing the king, sab il that il malakiyyah is the official name of it, which is exactly like sab il that il 2ilahiyyah y3ni, that malakiyyah? give me a break.
anyways. back to our issue.
Iraqis:
you seem to have forgotten smallllllll facts, smalllll details in your article and comments.
for example the fact of! : for 13 years of the economic embargo on Iraq, Jordan was the one benefetor of it, being the source of virtually all Iraq’s imports during all these 13 years. The funnily tiny Jordanian economy made a whole lot of cash out of that, dont you agree?
the oil! during saddam’s time, out of all the improts of oil we got, 50% were for free, and the other 50% were for half the price.
I want to establish the point of: Iraq really for long years gave a lot, i mean seriously a lot to Jordan, seriously, seriously alot. and the only reason gas prices ahve not always been as high as they are today, and that cooking gas has been for 2JDs and not 4.25 since ever, is only because Iraqi gave it to Jordan for free.
Jordan has supported the american war on Iraq, if you deny this we will know you are an official governmenal spokesman:) and it should deal with its sequences: the loss of all the aids Jordan got from Iraq is one of them, and the flooding of Iraqis is another one, dont tell me they didnt expect both, then it wouldnt say a lot about the wisdom of 3abdalla. ya seedi king abdalla, wala yhimmak.
SO what i am saying is the first face of the problem is: Iraqis feel they did a lot to Jordan when they had the money, and now when they are week, jordan is treating them like shit on the borders, so they feel humilated and they are angry, there is a feeling that jordan treated them in a very ungrateful manner. and they have every right.
second!
you seem to foget tiny details all the time: for example that for every single Iraqi that wants to get legal residency, they have to put a diposit of 100 000 JDs, 150 000 US dollars that is. nothing comes for free Nas, the Jordanian government made the best out of the Iraqi ordeal, and for over 4 years now, it accepted every bit of the stolen money that came from Iraq and just looked away, billions of dollars, now after 4 years when every bit of that money has came to jordan and os official “clean” money that runs into the veins of the Jordanian economy now, they jussssst got “inspired”, as in ijahom wa7i, to do money laundry laws? 😀 coooool. only after all the stolen money came already, with all people that fled Iraq ever since the war. hardly anyone with money left in Iraq at all.
And then, what if you are an everyday poor Iraq that is fleding the hell of Iraq and want to come to Jordan and have no 100 000 JDs to spare? then you are illegal: your kids are not allowed in schools, but in provate schools only, where you have to pay loads of money that Jordanians themselves cant afford, and you and your family have no access to health care, and you are not allowed to work too. how do you live then? you spend the money you brought with you, and then you live on the money that your relatives send to you from outside jordan, both cases those too are spending money, and bringing money to Jordan, and the cute trick then: for everyday of their illegal residency they have to pay about 3 Dollars or so if they ever want to leave the country. and if they were caought in the street with no residency, they are imediatly deported to the borders, wether you do or do not have a UNHCR refugee paper. how fair and how just, how grateful is that?
lets talk cars! any iraqi wants to keep his car in Jordan, have to again, give a deposit that equals the price of the car as estimated in the Jordanian market. cooool.
lets talk universities! Iraqi students in universities are on the “muzai” system, which means they pay the double of what a regular Jordanian, like me and you, pay when they go to university, regardless of their marks in highschool. how fair, just, moral is that?
If anything Iraqis have brought to Jordan billions and billions, and Jordan made sure to extract every cent out of them, brutaly, while insutling them on the borders meanwhile.
lets talk security!
why is Jordan the number oen Target outside Iraq? lets answer that question.
to asnwer it, then lets start with: Its not. where did you get that info from? the number one target is definatly the states. because of all its evil foreign policy and its results. now the question is: is Jordan a target? yes it is, why is it a target? now this is the trick question!
is it because of its democracy and way of life? 😀 no its not. is it because of its black iris that i never saw in my life? no its now. is it because of the trasure of Mansaf that Iraqis envy is for? no its not, then maybe its because Jordan has suported the American policy step by step and was a strategic aid in this war? maybe because it suports the current Iraqi goverment that is not olny a myth, but a bunch of pupets for the occupation? maybe because it traisn iraqi security forces, that are nothing but the tools of the occupation that works to fight the armed resistance against the occupatin?
maybe!
so again, Jordan should know the consequences of its political decisions, and expect the results of them otherwise, the leadership wouldnt be all that wise ha?
and then you talk about sheaa and sunna wanting to kill each other in Jordan? alright, my official comment on that is: bulshit. you should really watch out these words coming out of your mouth (fingers) and realize that they are such a reponsibility, dont work on spreading in the media more ceeds of virtual nonexistant problems, hold up a national patrio responsibilty and say the truth: you dont know. because i do, because i work with refugees. sectarian tention between Iraqis in Jordan is a myth. and though i am close to Refugees and organizations that works with them, i havent heard once, not even once a story about a sonna wanting to kill a shea, or a shea that wants to kill a shea in Jordan. Shea and Sunna have lives peacefuly in Iraq since ever. and even after the war in Iraq for a whole year, everyone was armed, and there was no governemn at all, a ttoal security void, and nobody atttacked anybody, it all stated only when Bramer, set the bases for the sectarion tention when he planted the idea by isntalling a governing council based on sectarian devision. from that point on the political tention has taken a sectarian mask. the problem in Iraq is a political one and not a sectarian one.
I am going to hold you the responsibilty of your words and ask you to prove that there are Iraqis trying to kill each other basig on sectarian bases in Jordan, readers on this blog need you to prove this or respectfuly apolgize and take it back, and everyone will appreciate and admire that.
Iraqis living in Jordan since the gulf war? now that is a total spin. how many are those? 5 people? be truthful. of course you have no offical numbers, but i assure you that if any, numbers are negligible.
Iraqis have invested in multi million dollars projects in jordan, starting with the Roayl hotel and going through thousannds of buisness. The very majority of them go into their buisnesses with a Jordanain partner and do the legal thigns and paper work in the names of Jordanians to make their lives easier, so you can never tell from the records how much Iraqis are investing, but what we know for sure that the billions that Iraqis brought with them in four years, are either siting in JOrdanian banks or in the Jordanian market.
Iraqis have bought tenths of thousands of apartments and houses, causing the whole sector of real state to flourish, all the contractors and engineering companies and concrete and steel companies, all Jordanain, benefited from that and made Billions. Iraqis bought thousands of car from the local market, all the owners of these cars companies, the dealers and everyone inbolved made a lot of money out of it, the hotels sector flourished, the car-rental service is sky jumping, all owned and operated by Jordanians. now everyday Jordanain isnt getting any of that money, the goverment employee, the market guy, those are not, and those are the ones that are finding the prices of things going up and their ability to buy these thigns are going down, right?
so what we are talking about is billions of dollars entering the country, and the people benefiting from that are capitalists only, is that called fault of Iraqis? no my friend, thats called capitalism. And if there is anyone to blame its the Jordanian govemrnet, that is recieving all these loads of money and failing to distribute it in a way that enables all people to get some;)
lets not forget the expensive resturants, the malls, practically every place where you need to spend a lot of money, walk into it and you will find more people speaking Iraqi than Jordanian/ Palestinian sometimes. all people that own and operate these places, typically jordanians, are really happy about it, no?
Now the security issue!
what money are you talking about? couple of guards on the borders? couple of patrols in the poorest of neighborhoods to check on the residency of the poor iraqis and deport them? are these the expenses of security you are talking about? all the metal detectors are just a part fo the culture of fear, they are not real for real, i intentioanly try to pretend i havent seen them adn pass by them, rarely ever anyone calls me to go through the metal detector. most of the times i intend to not clarify all the metal objects i have, i put only a part of them on the table, and i pass through the detector, and it rings, and nobody gives a damn. nobody is serious about them. they are just a part of the culture of fear. its a political tool and not a security too.
I am sure i missed many other points i wanted to talk about, but i think i talked alot already:) so i will wait and hope that you kindly reply, and then finish the rest of them, hopefuly:)
good day!
Khalid*
what a typos machine i am.
sorry about that.
A great big Iraqi boosa for you, Khalid bin Jarrar.
i wasn’t going to write anything about this whole issue as i thought it’s far too messy!
but i’m def going to write about it now…most people seem to be stuck at a junction that needs to be respelled and explained.
but nas, jad, excellent post. regardless of whether or not i agree with you or anyone else from the people that commented, it’s a piece of art! good stuff
Hey are Mish3an Jabouri and Hirath al-Dhari benefiting from your hospitality too?
Many of my relatives stayed in Jordan in 1991, until most of them moved to the UK. One of them was denied a visa to the UK, and he ended up staying in Amman for 18 months – ironically he got a visa to the US. He told me that some Jordanians were assholes, but most of them were kind and friendly, and he befriended a few of them.
I’m sorry about the inflation in your country. Hopefully many Jordanians own their homes, and maybe some rental property and businesses. I wish I had bought an apartment in Amman in the 90s. Many thanks and kudos to the Jordanians who have been hospitable to Iraqis, regardless of sect. Insha Allah the situations in our countries will change for the better.
“Unless the international community, including Arabs, begin to step up to the plate by taking in Iraqis, or giving us a whole lot of funding, then I don’t think any one is in a position to pick on Jordan.”
You summed it all up, Jordan is doing its best. Anyone who denies it is turning a blind eye to the reality.
Great post Nas, I have nothing to add.
Great comment, Khalid.
Having spent many months in Jordan going back and forth from Baghdad in 2004, 2005 and 2006, I can say that, despite all the restrictions that Khalid mentioned above and the huge amount of money I had to pay for rent/services/residency, I have always appreciated that Jordan and Syria were the only Arab countries to open their borders for Iraqis, but I realise that it was not without a price. Even the Iraqi refugees with the worst conditions had to pay for their stay in Jordan. No one is really living off the welfare of the Jordanian state (if there really is such a thing).
I, too, would probably resent it if hundreds of thousands of Jordanians entered Iraq in a span of four years. We all remember how Iraqis felt when one million Egyptian workers settled in Iraq during the 80s, when almost all able Iraqi men were fighting on the eastern border. Nevertheless, I have always enjoyed my stay in Jordan and regarded it as a second country, which is why it sometimes hurts to read some of these comments from Jordanians – many of whom are originally Palestinian and who should be the first people to sympathise with the plight of Iraqi refugees, because they are the only other Arabs who know what it means to be a refugee and to be blamed for all the problems in their host country.
No one is objecting about security precautions or minor inconveniences that you can find at any airport; we are objecting to the seemingly deliberate policy of humiliating Iraqis (locking them up, throwing food for them on the floor; denying them access to talk to their relatives in Amman; telling them things like, “If you were not all traitors and did not abandon Saddam, this would not have happened to you,” and the sort). And those are not just a few bad apples. I heard those words every time I entered Jordan, and it seems to have gotten much worse lately. Sadly, though, dozens of Iraqis still make the trip to Jordan daily out of desperation.
It was not the fault of Iraqis that they had to abandon their homes under threat. Yes, there is bloodshed going on in Iraq, and many groups and countries are responsible for that (including Jordan, which continues to support U.S. policy in Iraq, and at the same time work to undermine it – a continuation of the two-faced policy of the Jordanian government in the region for decades). Many of those countries did nothing to alleviate the Iraqi refugee crisis, and we also realise that. The U.S. invaded Iraq from neighbouring countries, under the blessing of most ruling dynasties in the region. But then, Iraqis are blamed for what happened in their country, as if they had a choice whether they should have been occupied and uprooted from their homes or not.
Trust me, if we had access to other countries we would have gone there, but we don’t. UNHCR and every foreign embassy asks that Iraqis apply to them in Jordan, and then sit waiting for months if not years. What do we do in this case? Stay in Iraq and get killed? We choose to swallow the humiliation we receive (for no reason) in order to find refuge in another country. No one can really afford to live in Jordan, where you have no access to education/healthcare/employment, unless you have the money for it, which in this case you are not a refugee but an investor benefiting Jordanian economy, just the same as the Saudi and Qatari tourists infesting Amman every spring and summer, who we don’t hear anyone blaming them for economic problems in Jordan. An example: last summer, when I wanted to rent an apartment in Jordan, no one would budge when I tried to negotiate rents because they always said, if you don’t rent it for so and so JD, a Saudi family would come and pay more than that for the same place. So how is it our fault that rents are going up?
And we have been posting all the time about how the international community has to at least pay for the stay of Iraqi refugees in Jordan, if they are not willing to take them in.
good comment, khalid.
Don’t waste your time though. Some Jordanian nationalists have been repeating similar anti-immigrants’ rants about Palestinians for the last 50 years or so, even against Palestinians who became Jordanian citizens, so how do you expect such people to treat Iraqis?
Syria is hosting almost double the number of Iraqis, and Syria is a socialist country where the government really spends money on every new resident, but we don’t hear the Syrian politicians and media whining about Iraqis.
The vast majority of the Iraqi refugees will go back home as soon as the occupation ends and Iraq becomes free again. So if any Jordanian nationalists are worried, please calm down. Iraqis don’t want to share Jordan with you and they want to go back home more than you want them to.
An interesting thing happened yesterday in relation to this issue. I was walking back home and I spot a large Jordanian trailer here in Dubai. Of course I got involved, apparently it was an Iraqi, seems to be a nice well educated well off individual, was moving his belongings and settling in the UAE. A few weeks back when Iraq won the Asian cup it felt like I was in Baghdad, the streets were clogged with thousands of Iraqis celebrating, I hear the same happened in Amman. The police in sharjah confiscated dozens of cars and initially they threatened that they would be confiscated permanently but then reduced it to a month or so impound plus a fine, Sharjah was literally at a standstill no one can go in or out of the city because the main (corniche) road is 1 block of the main entrance tot he city (al khan) the backup was so huge cares were lined up all the way onto the Dubai sharjah road, of course add to this the daily traffic mess that the UAE is living , it was intolerable. A friend of mine swore it took him 4 hours to cross the Buhaira Rd ( a couple of kilometers). Iraqi stores groceries and restaurants, bakeries etc are popping up all over the place especially in Sharjah, I wish there were numbers of how many Iraqis entered the UAE since the war began but I have found non. I made my own sample, I live in a 42 floor building each floor has 5 apartments thats more than 200 apartments/families. Most of whom are non-Arabs,every Arab family, except for 4, that i know of are Iraqis who have moved within the past 3 years. Many of them are my friends and most have either lived in Amman or Syria and they frequently go back and forth to visit family and manage business. Oh and btw the manager of the building is also an Iraqi, and a brand new Iraqi kabab place just opened up next door, yummy. I did the same “study” ,if u can call it that, on my friends building and the results are similar. There are alot of Iraqis in the UAE aaaaalot.
An excerpt from the UNHRC press release, July 27th 2007:
Altogether, more than 2 million Iraqis have fled to nearby countries – primarily Syria and Jordan – to escape continuing violence in their homeland. About 500,000 of them are of school age and most currently have limited or no access to education.
Jordan announced on Thursday it would give all Iraqi children in the country access to Jordanian schools.
“We are very grateful to Jordan for this humanitarian decision,” said Judy Cheng-Hopkins, UNHCR’s Assistant High Commissioner for Operations. “These host countries have borne an enormous burden caring for millions of Iraqis. The sheer number of uprooted Iraqis has outstripped the capacity of their infrastructure to cope, particularly in the area of education. So we are now asking for international support specifically aimed at assisting these generous host governments in getting Iraqi children back into school.”
I repeat, the issue is not wether Jordan is helping or not, the issue, in my opnion is much much smaller, its a matter of keeping our own standards and values high at all levels and in every aspect, Its a jordanain matter really.
First of all,I like to apologize to all Iraqis for what happened in Queen Alia Airport,Iam,really disgusted at those losers that work in airport,they should demoted and punished for what they did to our brothers and sister from Iraq, but again.its the head of the Jordanian government who should be responsible for this mistreatment because,as you all know,jordan is run and managed by one single man and few cronies yes,they are our brothers and sisters,we are in the same bout we can’t blame Iraqis for the economic condition of Jordan,in a matter of facts,Iraq and Iraqis have been pumping money in Jordanian coffers for long time,”our” government is the responsible party here,and nobody should blamed for what’s talking place to Jordan Economy, except the King and his entourage for years Jordanian government has always shifted and deflected the problems on the “others”,few years ago, the government and some people in Jordan blamed the eygptians,and now it’s the Iraqis .
when are we going to wake up and say enough is enough,if it is up to me ,I will offer all Iraqis full citizenship,it is the least we Jordanian can do to alleviate the suffering and miseries that Iraqis Faces ,It is our responsibility to give all Iraqis the degnity that they deserve from us,because we ,Jordanian allowed “our” government to conspire with the American to occupy Iraq,and its all documented ,the cooperation between the US and Jordan in occupying Iraq.
Again, on behalf of myself and family, I say, Iam very very very sorry to all of my Iraqi brothers and sister
Alurdunialhurr,you are one of a kind ,thank you for the fine words…….
Khalid: since your comment was so long I don’t want to over extend my reply by addressing every single point individually but rather the comment and its text as a whole if you’ll allow me. This will probably end up longer than your comment.
Let me start by saying that by default I don’t accept insults on this blog. Whether they are directed at commentators or the King himself. People can have their opinions, I’m not looking to censor that or anything else. All that I ask is that people respect the rules of commenting on this blog. It’s a fairly simple procedure and usually doesn’t result in injury.
That being said, stop calling me a government official or a racist. You and other Iraqi bloggers seem bent on labeling anyone who doesn’t agree with you as a racist or a hater of Iraqis. On a forum you talk about “getting us”. You talk about “hating us”. You encourage other Iraqis to “jump in and “flood their stupid blogs with comments”
What does that imply? What does that tell me?
Does that come from a desire to establish some sense of dialogue between brother and brother, or does that sound like a vindictive agenda? I am doing my absolute best here to engage with the former while avoiding the latter. It comes from a sense of respect and love I have for my fellow Arabs, particularly Iraqis.
Back to the issue…
I haven’t forgotten any of the aforementioned facts. Yes, Jordan benefited immensely from Iraqi oil during the 90’s but let’s also not forget the fact that Jordan was economically sidelined by most Arab nations (particularly the wealthy ones) for its seemingly pro-Saddam stance during the Gulf war, both on a political and social level. Kuwait kicked out a whole lot of Palestinians and sent them to Jordan because of that. Again, I’m not saying this was tit for tat, but we’re talking about the importance of context here.
Iraqis did a lot for Jordan is an understatement for sure. And like I said before, next to Palestinians, Jordanians feel socially tied to Iraq.
As for expectations.
I personally don’t believe there was an expectation of an influx, or at least not to the extent that is now available. I was wrong to say 4 years before, because in reality the influx has happened in less than 3, and became particularly strong post-samara bombings. In 2003, thousands of Iraqis that had been living in Jordan for over a decade, in fear from Saddam and his regime, started to go back with the mindset that everything was changing. The situation in Iraq in 2003 compared to today was cotton candy. Many of these same people began to return back to Jordan after discovering that all was not well.
Historically, there is also a difference between an event that is streteched over a decade and one that occurs within a few months. It’s the difference between getting cheap oil for a decade, and suddenly being unable to afford bread within a few months. The difference between thousands of Iraqis coming to Jordan over a decade, and that same number arriving over a few months. This is to say nothing of the state of mind which implied that the war was a temporary thing; a sentiment that was shared by both Jordanians and Iraqis alike mind you.
And again, you and others keep saying “Jordan treats them” and “Jordan does” or “Jordan says”. You are looking at individuals and painting the whole country in the same light. Do the 1 million Iraqis currently in Jordan share the exact same horrible experiences of late? Do they have the same stories to tell?
As for the 100,000 deposit. I agree with you completely on that. I don’t see its purpose other than the lame excuse of “assurances”. However I don’t see the government having benefited from it as the money was not deposited in the treasury but in Jordanian banks who made some profit off of the accruing interest, and as far as I know Iraqis get that money back.
As for money laundering. The majority of cases have happened in the past 24 months as the war worsened and the Iraqis increased; half that time was spent on passing the legislation needed to regulate it. If the idea was really to “benefit” from all the laundered money (which is an economic joke) then the government would not have floated the bill to begin with and simply denied the existence of any wrongdoing.
In any case, I agree with you on the 100k deposit. And I agree that opens the door for illegal residencies. I believe there is an acknowledgement of the limitations such a paradigm has created thus the move to allow Iraqi children access to public schools regardless of their residency status. In either case, Iraqis have lived off of their personal savings.
The whole “catching Iraqis in the street” must be a joke. Because if it wasn’t we wouldn’t have many Iraqis left in the street.
Cars? They can take buses and taxis. The burden on infrastructure the sudden increase in traffic and cars have had, has been costly. Iraqis are not forced to have cars, they choose to pay the price which in itself is an expensive decision.
Of course Iraqis pay more than Jordanians at universities! They’re not Jordanians! Every other non-Jordanian pays non-Jordanian prices. Next you’re going to tell me that it’s “immoral” for Iraqis to pay the “foreigner” entrance fees at Petra and Jerash.
Iraqis have brought “billions and billions”? Really?
As for security.
Of course it’s the number one target outside Iraq. There’s half a world between Iraq and the States when we live next door to Iraq, train Iraqis police, have the biggest population of vulnerable Iraqis outside Iraq (per capita), and as you said, have been aligned with American policy in Iraq. I disagree with my government’s position but even if it were different, it would likely change very little in the context of security threats.
Secondly, I never said there was sectarian tensions between Iraqis in Jordan. You did. So if you have the gaul to tell me to watch my words, then you should watch what words you put in my mouth. My implication was that forces within Iraq see sectarian populations within Jordan as a target. This is undeniable and if you do deny it then we’ll all assume you’re an Iraqi government spokesperson.
Third, “a couple of guards on the border”? That’s a billion dollar joke you just made. Security personnel alone have increased by a minimum of 20% over the past 2 years. To say nothing of facilities, to say nothing of…
As for investors and using “Jordanian” partners. Actually I do know the percentage based on government documents I have personally seen and studied and they are very low when compared to those of Kuwaiti, Saudi, Emarati, Bahraini, Lebanese and even French origin. Especially if we are looking at the per capita aspect, so let’s not kid ourselves here with the whole fake mantra of “Iraqis have saved Jordan”.
Real estate initially flourished yes; for a few months. Now it’s basically high (overpriced) prices and that’s about it. The domino affect has not come to a stop, but I suppose calling it flourishing is reconciliation enough for the average Jordanian who is unable to afford current living expenses let alone real estate.
And once again, you seem keen on initiating the whole “blame” game.
So let me reiterate to you and your comrades.
This isn’t about blame for God’s sake. We are pointing out one reality, one angle of it. We, or at least I am not intent on blaming Iraqis. If anything I would bear the cost of it all alone if I could because this is something Jordanians and Iraqis have in common; the idea that it’s an Arab obligation, something no other people might understand just as well. The purpose of this post was to say that people can’t just take one side of something and say “this is the reality”. Iraqis were mistreated at the border…Jordanians torture Iraqis…thus Jordanians hate Iraqis…full stop. It doesn’t work that way.
I have agreed with a lot of your points because they are all common ground. I think the opposite can be said of you (and others) because there’s this whole game of playing defense against someone who isn’t playing offence in the first place.
In my opinion no one party is to blame. No one thing is to blame. If we are looking to place blame it’s really the circumstances that are to blame. And to fight through that, Iraqis and Jordanians have to do that together instead of simply marginalizing one another and pointing fingers.
Iraqi American:
First of all thank you for the comment. Second of all, I, nor any Jordanian I know, have any desire to instigate an apology especially from an Iraqi (I’m about to be called a racist now). I say this because I do feel it’s not only a moral obligation, one the world has ignored, but also a national obligation.
Like I’ve said before, the point of this post was to both create some dialog between both parties as well as present the other side of the story which says that it hasn’t been all roses for Jordanians.
The only apology you’ll find here, in the context of my post as well as the comments, is that of Jordanians denouncing mistreatment of Iraqis at the airport or any of the borders.
Raed Jarrar
First, it’s nice to see a comment from you on my blog, regardless of the fact that we disagree 🙂
Jordanian nationalists ranting about Palestinians for 50 years? Wow. Maybe, I wouldn’t really know about that, which kind of tells me that for the most part (i.e. overwhelming majority) both Palestinians and Jordanians are so entwined that no one rants about how the Palestinians are doing this or that in Jordan. Moreover, I wouldn’t call either the several Palestinian influxes, or the two Iraqi influxes into Jordan as “immigration”.
Syria too has experience some hardships but they are nothing compared to Jordan. Simply put, Syria has both the social (in terms of population) and economic capabilities to absorb the number of Iraqis it has. There’s a difference between 2 million Iraqis in a 20 million country, and 1 million Iraqis in a nation of 5 million.
I do hope Iraqis get to go back because that falls within the scope of their dreams and their rights, not because I want to see them leave Jordan. I haven’t made any implication that I want Jordan to be free of Iraqis so I don’t know where you got that from.
Once again, thanks for your comment.
Oops:)
you said
“” That being said, stop calling me a government official or a racist. You and other Iraqi bloggers seem bent on labeling anyone who doesn’t agree with you as a racist or a hater of Iraqis. On a forum you talk about “getting usâ€Â. You talk about “hating usâ€Â. You encourage other Iraqis to “jump in and “flood their stupid blogs with commentsâ€Â
What does that imply? What does that tell me?
“”
i never called you a racist or a hater of iraqis, or a governemnt official at all, not even once:) i suggested couple of times like you did in your comment, that if you think that then you will be a goverment spokesman, if you are an official, then you might want to arrest someone that curses the king, etc. both case, you are not.
i have to clear something, that forum is a private mailing list, i forgot its online:) and my comment was a reply to salam’s letter, as it obviosuly shows, where he talks about
http://bakkouz.net/2007/08/13/im-proud-to-be-jordanian/
which i replied and said i will reply to him once my stomach settles down, and called him a racist, and said that i hate racist jordanians. i didnt talk about you:) i didnt talk about jordanians, because i am one, remember?:) i talked about racist jordanians, and i hate racist ameriacns, and racist iraqis, and racists of every other nation too, who doesnt?:)
nevertheless, just to assure you that like you, i believe in the love of our brothers and sisters everywhere, and really am after the truth and clearing misconceptions and correcting mistakes, i removed it. consider it a gesture of good will:) flooding your stupid blogs with comments is a good thign right?:D you will get to hear from iraqis and know their opinions and they have to say in reply to yoru post and posts alike, put in mind that this mailing list is exclusive to iraqi bloggers and well educated guys, when i say flood their blogs with comments, thats opinions and debates, not spam or death threats by any means:D
again i remind you: this was meant to be in a private mailing list, and my comment is followed as you can see with a big smile, indicating i am kidding and talking in a frienly space.
this said, i will reply to your comment soon enough, inshala!:)
this whole “if you think this then you’re that” is a very negative way to peg someone and it’s a very obvious attempt at doing so.
You referred to “us” versus “them”, with my blog being mentioned several times in that topic in relation to the exchange that took place between you and Salam. Flooding “their” blog(s) is just one example and I think you and I both know what you meant when you said that so lets not kid ourselves here.
That being said, this is all besides the point. The objective here was to throw these insults and misconceptions aside and focus on the issue as opposed to the person (or blogger).
inshallah, looking forward to it!
ya khy b3den ma3ak?
y3ni if i meant you why would i deny it? am i afraid of you or anything?:)
dont mis-quote me, the comment where i said i hate racist jordanians was particulary in a reply where i particulary talked about http://bakkouz.net/2007/08/13/im-proud-to-be-jordanian/ specifically in a post where i talked only about it, i named it, i said i will reply to IT, and i said i hate racist jordanians. and that comment is now deleted too as you can see!! and then there is another post, in another part of the thread, talking about all the other bloggers that are spreading this idea of Iraqis leaching on Jordan and that Jordan is doing all the best for them, both ideas of which are not true, where i said: flood THEIR blogs with comments. why is flooding their blogs with comments offending or upsetting or in anyway positive to you?! mish fahim! and that one is still there you can see it in the link you provided yourself!!! why are you trying to push me to the extreme and prove that i have anythign against you while i dont, why would i deny it if i do?!
and i didnt say at any point, or did anyone else actually in the thread ( i had to go and read all of it actually!) about “getting us” where did you find that?! walla dawwarit ma la2et.ha hay! i am sure i didnt say it, and didnt find anyone elsa saying it too! help me find it y3ni iza kanat marrat 3alay!
anyways, as you said, its beside the point, lets stick to what we are saying here and discuss the points, to save both our times and stick to the subject.
Once i have time, i will write you the reply i promised!
or in anyway negative to you***
Khalid: take it easy brother…no need to get excited
keep cool:)
Nas: You said: “The objective here was to throw these insults and misconceptions aside and focus on the issue as opposed to the person.” Thank you for that comment. I would like you to focus on the issue but it seems you always skirt around it. I said this before elsewhere and I will repeat it again. This is not about immigrants flooding into Jordan and even less to do with security. This is all happening for the sake of vindictive humiliation plain and simple. This is about rich, independent Iraqis who can demonstrate legitimate reasons to go to Jordan being humiliated and treated like dirt and for what? This has happened too many times now to say that this is a result of a few rogue officers. Nas, the security police are humiliating and insulting legitimate visitors to your country. This is thoroughly reprehensible behaviour. The repeated actions of these officers against visitors to Jordan brings shame on the whole country. The fact that you as a Jordanian are not prepared to condemn this in the strongest possible terms brings shame on you.
salam:
How am I skirting around the issue when I’m addressing and debating it head on? I think you think that this is a single issue that is unrelated to anything, when anything that happens in the middle east is neither simple nor unrelated to other things. There is always a greater context to consider.
I strongly disagree with that, but I’m assuming this is a statement or opinion that is completely dependent on one’s personal point of view. The generalization is in itself wrong to begin with, let alone the assumption behind its source.
dude…what’s wrong with you? I have condemned the acts a hundred times.
I even went as far as to support a call for an investigation. what do you want me and others to do? Write poems and sing songs about it? Reimburse the victim Iraqis?
pick something
Nice post Nas…
Rather an inflaming subject, no matter which prepective you take, but I agree with you…why dont other arab countries step up to the plate and help Jordan out with the refugee crisis??
Also there was some criticising of the king in some of these comments…how about if the king had shut the borders to Iraqi’s long ago? Iraqi’s…Palestinians…Lebanese and any other group of people that have seeked/seeking refuge in Jordan should at least be thankful for the safe haven there are provided in Jordan…Understand this is JORDAN, and its inhabitants may be a little frustrated at the MASSIVE influx of refugees. Obvious there will be some friction, but understand there is no outright rejection…I dare someone to suggest a country that would allow 1million (roughly 20% of the population) into the country, without strong policing and security measures?? Jordan’s infrastructure is under huge strain because of the over inflated population…reducing the standard of living of the original inhabitants, obliviously the majority are more than eager to aid the Iraqi brothers, but would not be happy if this was at the expense of the their living standard. I pray for stability in Iraq and Palestine so the refugees can choose to go home and return the their lands and there dignity, until that day, don’t burn the tent you have been giving as it is all you have.
The question that begs it’s self,why rich Iraqis are welcomed and poor ones are kept out????
Just to clear somethings up, and this by no way is a deffense or anything, this is pure facts:
1-The iraqi investments in jordan are minimal compared to other countries.
2-During the Oil for free times jordan was the only breathing space for Iraq’s economy, Iraq was boycotted by each and every nation in world, the food that was sent from jordan reduced the number of deaths dramtically.
3-The 100,000 deposit thing is only for getting legal residancy permit, the percentage of people who have legal residency is less than 5% of the Iraqi refugees, more than 90% of the iraqi refugees are considered “illegal” from the residency perspective.
4- Iraqi investments in jordan doesn’t add any value to the local community because basically it is in the services sector and mainly in real estate and resturants.
Again, this is just to clear some things up, this by no way is meant to minimize the positive effects that Iraqies had and still have on jordan.
my advice ..
if you’re really angry that your precious country is full of unwanted visitors .. be it palestinians or iraqis or martians .. you should hate the people who created / helped create the situation .. don’t hate the victims .. cuz they would rather be back home
And one more fatc, more than 30% of people who gets health services in the army medical services in jordan are Iraqies, and their expenses are paid by the royal court.
btw the way each side is trying to list the favors it has done for the other side is pathetic and shameful .. you’re embarrassing yourselves .. stop it
There’s a common saying in Jordan when someone does you a favor and then asks you for a million. You’d usually say to that person “erkabni!!!!”
It’s funny how people keep saying that Iraq and Iraqis pumped money into the country for decades. Was it not in exchange for anything? During the sanctions, money that entered Jordan from Iraq was all in the form of contract awards in exchange for goods, like food, medicine and agricultural needs. The reduced oil prices we got were in exchange for the strategic alliance between the two countries and quite honestly, for all those Pan Arabists who cry 3oroobeh and unity, reduced oil prices from one Arab country to the other should not be a gift, they should be a duty that you pan Arabists demand!
We were the first country to open our embassy in Iraq after the war. The terrorists had it bombed. Now our embassy is not operating there, and at least we are still giving Iraqis the chance to come to Jordan and give it a shot. We don’t have good facilities. We didn’t build a prison for Iraqis in Queen Alia Airport, they came and there’s no place to put them other than the airport. Let Iraqis start boarding planes to Chicago, see if they will get past the Passports station.
The only grief I have with what happened is the fact that they have to wait over night to go back to Baghdad. If a process can be put in place so that they don’t have to wait so long, this would be much easier.
There’s nothing out there that actually has the socio-economic breakdown of Iraqi, hence the initiated fafo study, however most professionals I’ve met in the field who would have some knowledge of it would put it between 50-50 to 60-40…latter numbers being the poor.
mohanned, I think that may be the problem as I said before. asking for that much money only encourages those who don’t have it (the majority) to become illegal.
I’m not angry. You must be confused.
ouf…am I awake or dreaming?
is it possible that hamzeh actually agrees with me on something? there should be balloons or something.
btw, what you described above was an actual idea that was floated by Saddam a few years back and shot down by the Gulf.
my reply wasnt directed to you personally .. so while you may not be angry others are and they have made it quite clear either in their replies here or in their posts on their own blogs
a2ulak balash angry .. lets say unhappy .. or upset .. agitated .. how about uncomfortable .. choose the one that satisfies you
and whether you are “angry” or not is irrelevant to the point i was trying to make anyway
Yes naseem, hamzeh has been high for the last two months 😀 just teasing man..
Naseem, the only difference between “legal” and “illegal” is the money which is wrong, I gave this piece of info for the “brother” who keeps saying “we did and we gave”, Which I say to him you didn’t give, saddam did, and if it was for you you wouldn’t give jordan sh!t! I am not saying that I love saddam, but to use his legacy which I assume you hate is somehow wrong, right? When you curse a “leader” and his legacy you don’t pick and choose..
“encourages those who don’t have it (the majority) to become illegal”
On the border they give them a 3 months pass to jordan, after the 3 months they become “illegal” for exceeding the time limit that they were given, but no one is going after iraqies, except if they commit an offence to the law, and deportations are not the norm.
mo:
that is true, although in a country like jordan the sudden socio-economic changes are inevitable calls for tensions. in any case, back to your point, yes there are many people to blame for the situation but like i’ve said several times in my post and comments, I personally am not looking to place blame on anyone, least of all Iraqis. I’m just trying to look at the whole picture which is confusing enough as it is. 🙂
mohanned:
granted there are no mass deportations, but the system in itself is essentially flawed. it leaves the illegality wide open.
I apologize for my late reply, but i am just too busy. i dont have time to teply to all what was said, although i really wish i could.
anyways.
to make a long story short, all yoru points are trying to prove that Iraqis are not the biggest contributer to Jordan economy, and that others, foreigners and khalayja have more investments etc, which i agree with, in the matter of fact i never claimed that they are, all i said that they are contribuers, they brought a lot of money after the war, yes billions, and helped jordan a lot before the war. and unfortunatly no, they dont get the 100 000 back, as long as they wanna keep their legal residency status they keep that money as a deposit. they dont even get interests for it, its wadee3a y3ni marboo6a.
ok, i was saying, even the poor Iraqis are spending their own money, they are not costign the JOrdanian economy becuase they are not depending on any sort of goverment support and are not getting any.
Iraqis in universities are paying like ofriegners, my point is that they are not leachign on the universities, they are paying what they have to pay, jsut like any other people coming to Jordan, and yes, i would expect Jorda to give them free seets, or at least treat them like the jordanians, or even better and give them discounts, after all Jordan is a partner in this war that lead these Iraqis to becomign refugees no? nevertheless, i am saying that they are paying, and paying so well too.
same goes for every other sector.
so as i said, i dont want to elaborate in discussing all the points, or proving that the nunebrs that other cmomenters provied about iraqis are false, i just want to say:
Iraqis have brought a lot of money, they are living in jordan using their own money, the rich and the poor ones, and if you are being efected personaly or the country as a whole by suffering from some traffic jams, then so be is, those are our brothers and sisters, you are not holding your weapon and fighting in Iraq, you are not doing much in financial support for Iraqis, then the least, the least you can do is to live with some traffic jam, for heavens sake.
as for the construction sector, its very fair to say that its flourishing, and it wasnt only few months, its been for years now, actually in 2004 the number of real flats that were bought by iraqis are more than any other non-jordanian nationality! says the official records, and now in 2007, there is a free newspaper delivered to my door every friday that only advertises new compunds, new lexury villages, new fancy buildings and apartments being built or in the market, many of them, cost more than 200 000 JDs. every friday news advertisments and new compunds! that says something no?:)
The Iraqi investments in Jordan are big, and in various important sctors too, just one example is the 300 million dollars invested by iraqis to build a factory to assemble and maitnain airplaens, to open an academy to train pilots, another traingin center to train helicopters pilots, Hotels, entertainment center, all that is the investment of one group of Iraqis (check here http://www.moheet.com/asp/cunt_show.asp?lol=1975770) in the matter of fact, Mr Majid Assaidi, the head of the Iraqi buisnesmen center center, says that the total ammount of Iraqi investment in Jordan exceeds 10 Billions Dollars (billions and billions? really?) distributed among over 10 000 companies, in addition to many other companies where Iraqis are partners and shareholders.
The poor Jordanians cat afford to buy apartments, I agree, but as i said before, this is a fruit of a capitalist system that doesnt provide real aid to poor people, a system that is designed to assist capitalist and investments, and not assist the poorest of people, anyways, you know that now the Jordanian goverment is building thousands of new apartments to be sold to people with limited and low income, now 8500 apartments in the first project only that will be between Amman and Zarqaa, with very cheap prices varying between 17-22000 Jds, about (25 000 – 30 000) dollars, so that solved, i dont know what other justifications there will still be to complain about Iraqis.
This project is a step the Jordanian goverment deserves credit for, and should have came years ago, and its being built with cooperation with 2i3mar.
back to what i was saying,
I agree with what you said, and what others also said: we are supposed to be brothers, we are supposed to help and support each other, we are supposed to stand up for each other, we are supposed to sacrifice our blood for each other, thats why its very condemned, very not-acceptable, from Jordanians to complain about their brothers coming to them, and not justifiable in anyway, the treatment they are recieving at the borders, and yes my dear, wether you know it or not, patrols going in the very poor areas asking iraqis about their residency and deporting them if they dont have one, are a fact, every Iraqi knows it, all people that work in the NGOs knows it, UNRWA knows it, i know it, i dont think even that the jordanain goverment denies it? just because you dont know about them, doesnt know they dont exist:) its not a daily practice, comes and goes in campaigns, not enought o take everyone in the street, but enought o keep everyone terrified and on their toes, alot of iraqis are afraid to leave their houses at all in these areas because of these patrols.
brothers and sisters stand up for each other in the rough times. the rpactices on the borders are systimatic, when an airplane comes from jordan, alot of the passengers, most of them sometimes are turned at the airport and forced to stay there until another flight takes them abck home, in couple of days, they sleep on the floors, like the photoes you said. i went personally with BBC to meet an Iraqi BBC invited for a certain story, two young men, they werent allowed to enter, and it took us the entire day to put huge pressure using ministers and people in the mukhabart to be able to meet them, just meet them, in the “jail” area, they were on the edge of a nervous breakdowns, have been sleeping on the floor for two days, didint have a chance to shower, were treated really bad. saying that its just bad aplles doing that, is just like saying that its only bad apples in abu ghreib that trat iraqis badly, its not true: the system is creating an enviroment that treats iraqis like that on borders, and its been going on for long time, a while a go a person i know came from Iraq, only 3 passengers were allowed into jordan and the rest werent. only 3!!
instead of complaining, writtnig posts complaining, start working, volunteer some of your money and your time to help your iraqi brothers, at least the ones in Jordan, thats the least we can do, thats our patriot responsibility as Jordanians, thats how we want the world to view us, generous, good hosts, that stand fort heir brothers when they need us, dont we?
lets start working on it then!
Khalid:
Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. However I too am extremely busy so I’ll apologize in advance for probably not being able to respond to your comment until at least Friday night.
actually!
a very interesting report issued by the Jordanain chamber of commericial, says that “ما تم استثمارة ÙÂيالعقارات خلال السنوات الخمس الماضية ما قيمته (10) مليارات دينار أردني” translates into: the size of investment in the real estates sectors in Jordan exceeded 10 Billions in the last 5 years, read the report (http://www.ammanchamber.org/UploadedImages/file18.doc) the report goes on elaborating:
“مما كانله آكبر الأثر على دÙÂع عملية النمو الاقتصاديوترسيخ التنمية المستدامة ÙÂيالمملكة ØŒ ØÂيث يتسم سوق العقار بتأثيره المباشر ÙÂيتØÂريك ونمو باقيالقطاعات الاقتصادية الأردنية المختلÙÂØ© خاصة قطاع الانشاءات الذييوÙÂر ÙÂرص العمل التشغيلية للايديالعاملة، ويخلق نشاطا ملØÂوظا لكاÙÂØ© الخدمات المساندة مثل تنشيط اسواق الØÂديد والاسمنت والخشب والزجاج والالمنيوم والادوات الصØÂية وغيرها، اضاÙÂØ© إلى تطوير قطاعات البنية التØÂتية والمشاريع الاسكانية والاستثمارية المختلÙÂØ©. ”
“which had the greatest effect on accelerating the process of enonomical growth in the country, because the realestate market has a direct effect on the growth of the other economical sectors in the Jordanian economy specially the constrution which provides job apportunities to the market, and creats a remarkable boost in all the assisting sectors such as the market of steel, concrete, wood, glass, alaminuim and sanitary equipment, in addition to improving the sectors of the infra structure and the various residential and commerical projects”
the following chart shows the size of continues grothw in the real estates sector:
جـدول رقــم (1) يبــيÙâ€
ØÂجــم التــداول ÙÂــيسوق العــقار الأردنــيللاعـــوام
2000-30/6/2006
السنـــه ØÂجــم الــتداول / مليــونديــنار
2000 900
2001 1100
2002 1200
2003 1300
2004 2000
2005 3500
1/1-30/6/2006 2800
المصدر : دائرة الاراضيوالمساØÂØ©
which shows that the size of investment in the sector has grown rapidally from 900 Millions JDs in 2000, to 3.5 Billions in 2005, knowing that in the first six months only in 2006 it was 2.8 Billions. fair to assume that if it went the same rate until the end of 2006 it would be 5.6 billions.
and the report goes on talking about the role of foreigners, saying that the Iraqis came first in the list of non Jordanian owners during 2004 and also 2005 (report made in mid 2006) followed by saudis, and then Americans, Syrians, Brish and people of the UAE, in that order.
admit it. Iraqis are good contributors to this country! they are feeding it and not leaching on it! says official Jordanian numbers!
Take your time bro:) whenever you can!
“Foreign aid, specifically from the coalition forces, has been peanuts; laughable, according to most experts in the field”
Almost $500,000,000 each year from the U.S. That’s comparable to what Egypt gets,population wise. I wouldn’t mind a few of them peanuts myself.
I am a Lebanese filmmaker and news producer based in London. I have been covering the story of Iraqi refugees for many months now, and currently I am trying to put together a film about the treatment of refugee at borders (across syria, jordan and lebanon)… I want to cover all sides of the story and would be itnrested in speaking to anyone who wants to get his/her point of view across…Also any videos or footage out there that I can use would be appreciated.
You can see the work I’ve done so far on http://www.outtherenews.com
I hope to hear from you.
Zeina
zeina.ah@outtherenews.com
Although this has been a an “over-chewed” subject, I would like to point out one thing. Jordan is totally entitled to choose who enters and who does not, no one can argue with that. What is unacceptable is the way in which this rejection is happening. The humiliation committed against the people sent back to Iraq is just out of the limit. Jordan can just join the rest of the “no-iraqis” country club by binding the entrance to a pre-issued visa. This way, no one will be humiliated at the airport and one would loose the 600$+ ticket fee.