…searching for the ring (in a haystack)…well at least the “plunged into darkness” is accurate
Much of the northern Gaza Strip was plunged into darkness after Israeli war planes hit a power station, two bridges and a road in a series of night-time raids.
Flames poured into the night sky from the power plant in central Gaza and the sound of shelling could be heard in the southern city of Rafah as combat helicopters flew above.
“We are using all forces that we can by land and by air in order to get him home,” Israeli army spokeswoman Noa Meir said of the kidnapped soldier, 19-year-old Gilad Shilat. [source]
Power plant attack knocks out power in Gaza…
Although I’m against this whole hostage situation to begin with (for the simple reason that it would lead to what is happening right now) but it’s telling that Israel is unwilling to seek an exchange. There’s the whole “we dont negotiate with terrorists, we just carpet bomb their cities” but these guys (as naive as they were to take a hostage) are requesting the release of women and children from Israeli jails, which is something someone some where should pay a just a little attention to.
Since the second intifada began in 2000 about 600 minors are thrown in Israeli jails. It’s known as the ‘throw a rock get a jail cell’ policy, which has worked pretty well in Israel’s favor. Sometimes they arrest their development long before actual childhood (careful this link contains images not suitable for minors).
What the world won’t tell you about these kids is that they are fearless in ways I will never comprehend. I can’t imagine being 13 and going to jail for throwing stones. This is a telling video from Gaza in 1992 that made me wonder what ever became of the kids that are in it. (if you’re in the mood for time travelling you can go back in black and white to watch the first stone being thrown)
All that being said, Palestinians in Gaza have gone through a lot of shit since 1948, but these last few weeks and these next few weeks will be especially brutal. Suffice to say my heart goes out to them.
Lastly (on the side) only a few Jordanian bloggers have been blogging about any of this and I have to say I’m a bit disappointed. I’m not chastising anyone (everyone’s free to do what they like) I’m just…disappointed.
This just makes me sick.
Naseem — about the outcome of rocks vs tanks — have you ever considered the learning curve involved there? I’m still trying to wrap my mind around any family that says “Run along honey and go lob some rocks at an Israeli tank; it’ll be fun, you’ll see, be home in time for dinner and homework … ?”
13 year olds aren’t “brave” — they have no sense, and can be influenced by the adults around them. I do not understand why adult Palestinians are permitting their children to put themselves in danger.
Also, remember that militants from Gaza have been launching rockets into Israel for months since the pullout. Nobody in this scenario is without blood on their hands, and nobody’s innocent.
Israel is out of Gaza — so why aren’t the people just working on building up their lives there? I know, I’m American, and there’s alot I just don’t understand.
Then there’s the kidnapped IDF soldier — and my heart is still aching over the torture and butcher of the two Americans. I’ve had tears in my eyes all week over the American soldiers, one of whom was Texan. I’m in no mood to feel anything but dull abiding anger over medieval tactics, and torture for the purpose of writing bloody headlines in the NYT’s.
There was a minor news article about the time of the Israeli pull-out from Gaza. A bunch of Israeli’s got together, and raised money to build greenhouses for the Pali’s to help them out. The Palestinians destroyed the greenhouses because Jews built them. I’d give you the link, but can’t locate it just now.
The Palestinians voted Hamas into office awhile back. The stated goal of Hamas is basically to destroy the state of Israel, is there anyone in the Palestinian territories that doesn’t know that? Before the election of Hamas, even as a conservative Texan, I had some empathy for the Palestinians, believing that they’d gotten a raw deal, but that with a two state solution, they could rebuild and prosper with a little assistance, and lack of war. Then, they voted known murderers into office, and that acceptance from me evaporated. To me, this meant that the average Palestinian doesn’t want to rebuild their lives, they just want more murder and death.
I’ve linked this article to mine this morning; my article’s pro-Israeli, and you’ll probably hate it. But, I want to send as many of my conservative readers over here as possible, because despite the differences in viewpoints, I like the your sanity and I think folks need to undertand different viewpoints. Also, I enjoy the Ayah of the day, and would like others to read it as well.
Respect is where it starts, I think.
Naseem, I don’t expect you to agree with me, and will probably understand if you scrap this particular comment — but, what the heck. I’ll comment again, on something else, another day, if you’re still agreeable.
FrauBudgie,
You are right, there is nobody without blood on his hands.
Are you aware that the Israelis have elected known terrorists for positions such as prime minister?
You say the Palestinians were given land on which to build a state, but remember that they first had their land taken from them, without even compensation or any recognition of their legitimate rights.
Nor has Israel been willing to grant the Palestinians anything that would approach a viable state. It is not only the occupation, the continued annexation of land, the withholding of supplies into the occupied territories, and such. The terms that have been set in any accords to date are not such that the Palestinians could build a viable state.
You ask for respect, but I think the place to begin that search is with yourself
Nas, I hope you do not mind me responding here, I know that she was addressing you not me
What is happening today is insane. Proof that Israel values the lives of Israelis more than Palestinians. Like one Israeli leader once said, Palestinians are cockroaches that need to be crushed.
People with no hope will do crazy things. When you back someone against the wall, what do you expect? You cut power, the very same power that goes to sustain sick people and infants in the hospital and then try to expect people do act rationally?
I dont blame the Palestinians one bit for what they have done, or will do.
Unfortunately, war is the fare selected by Hamas (the duly elected majority party of the Palestinian Authority, remember?). Now Israel will give them their fill of it.
They could have made *real* peace with Israel when they came to power, rather than openly holding out the option of war to eliminate the nation at any time in the future that they thought they could successfully do so. They are no better than Arafat in this regard. This is a catastrophe totally of Hamas’ making…and I do believe Hamas represents the mindset of the majority of Palestinian Arabs.
They sowed to the wind, and now they are reaping the whirlwind. I’m sorry for anybody in Gaza suffering because Hamas preferred war to peace and honored suicide over life. But that is why Gazans are suffering today. If Israel didn’t exist, then today it would be the Egyptians or the Jordanians or the Lebanese rolling into Gaza to settle Hamas’ hash. Hamas is the one to blame. The only one to blame.
“What is happening today is insane. Proof that Israel values the lives of Israelis more than Palestinians….”
Of course Israel values the lives of Israelis more than Palestinians. You actually think Palestine doesn’t value Palestinians above Israelis?
CMAR II, hmm lets see, how long before Hamas came to power has Israel been taking land? How long have the people of Gaza been suffering from checkpoint restrictions and lack of food coming into the area? the list is endless and the crimes of Israel are dominant long before Hamas, long before Arafat and long before Olmert.
Mas — yes. I’m also aware that the Israeli terrorist group operated back in the 40’s … and that some of the leaders were also hanged by the Israeli government a few years later.
The practucak, problem is that Israel exists, by UN mandate, and probably the Israeli’s are not prepared to just sail away, after 2-3 generations. Killing all of them, as the militant wing of Hamas seems to want to do, is abhorrent to me. There is land for the Palestinians, and land for the Israeli’s, and nobody will prosper as long as one side is trying to obliterate the other.
This is difficult to discuss. I respect your opinion, and will agree to disagree. However, it is noteworthy that we can agree that nobody there is without blood on their hands.
I have been extremely upset about the American soldiers who were kidnapped and butchered by Al Quada — and have had a hard time discussing any kidnapping-related subject rationally.
The typical pro-Israel tactic, accusing Palestinians of wanting a new holocaust. Much easier to say that than to actually deal with what Israel is doing. Look, we invaded Iraq based partially on UN Resolutions. Israel is in violation of dozens of them, including Security Council Resolutions. When are we going to put pressure on them?
Insane that people think Palestinians have some sort of responsibility to provide security for their oppressors! When in the history of the world have the oppressed had an obiligation to protect the very people occupying their land?
As to Hamas, considering that Israel played a part in the formation of Hamas and supporting it early on as a religious counterbalance to the secular PLO, I say they got what they deserved.
Crazy how the victims of the holocaust of become such a cruel and barbaric nation.
CMAR II, hmm lets see, how long before Hamas came to power has Israel been taking land?
Nas,
How long has Gaza been back in Palestinian hands before they started using it as a base for abductions? How long did it take Hamas to be in power before they began endorsing abductions? How long after Hamas assumed power is one supposed to wait before they drop the posture of being at war with the country from whom they need to gain concessions. The Palestinians have a case, but I’m afraid I’ve lost patience with them. Since 1998 they have opted for war rather than peace.
Those checkpoint restrictions are there because Palestinians have earned a reputation for walking into restaurants, weddings, and busses with explosives tied to their bodies. The Palestinian Authority is currently dominated by a party that considers itself in a defacto state of war with Israel. Do you really think this latest incident is going to make any reasonable person think that policy should be changed?
Hamas is totally and unreservedly responsible for the current catastrophe in Gaza. They could end it by insisting that the soldier be released. Every day they don’t do that is a day they could have ended all this and didn’t.
“Crazy how the victims of the holocaust of become such a cruel and barbaric nation.”
Such a weak statement. Put yourself in Israel’s shoes, its not an easy situation. No country has ever faced the terrorist reality Israel is faced with. I will be the first to admit that Israel makes mistakes and uses bad judgment at times but using the holocaust in your statements like that is pathetic. It serves no purpose but to polarize the readers.
FrauBudgie, you might be willing to accept a peace that institutionalizes and perpetuates injustice against yourself, I would not know. But I do know that it is not for you to say that others should accept such terms
If you are truly interested in peace then you need to be interested in justice as well
I do not expect any miracles here, but I can say that I see no hope for peace unless Israel and its supporters are prepared to recognize and honestly and in good faith address the serious injustices that have been inflicted, and that all proposals to date seek to perpetuate
CMAR II
How long has Gaza been back in Palestinian hands before they started using it as a base for abductions? How long did it take Hamas to be in power before they began endorsing abductions? How long after Hamas assumed power is one supposed to wait before they drop the posture of being at war with the country from whom they need to gain concessions.
First of all, let’s get the facts straight: The kidnapping was carried out by a dissident faction opposed to the Prisoners’ Document, and, until Israel invaded Gaza, the Hamas government was working to get the prisoner released. Second, Israel has carried out plenty of kidnappings in South Lebanon and the Occupied Palestinian territories; in fact, the Israeli Supreme Court legalized kidnapping as a bargaining chip. So it has no right to complain when Palestinians engage in the same tactics.
The Palestinians have a case, but Iâ??m afraid Iâ??ve lost patience with them. Since 1998 they have opted for war rather than peace.
Do you realize Israel has refused to conduct meaningful negotiations with he Palestinians since Sharon came to office in 2001? When you go around saying, “We have no partner for peace”, don’t be surprised when it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The Palestinian Authority is currently dominated by a party that considers itself in a defacto state of war with Israel. Do you really think this latest incident is going to make any reasonable person think that policy should be changed?
Palestinians have been living in intolerable conditions long before Hamas came to power. As long as Palestinians are devoid of hope, living under a increasingly barbaric occupation now in its 39th year (and, despite what Israel says, the Gaza Strip is still occupied) then radical Palestinian groups will find a very fertile environment to grow.
It’s in nobody’s interest to see the Palestinian Authority collapse, least of all Israel. If I were Israeli, I would recognize that bombing and starving Palestinians into dropping their support of Hamas is a losing strategy. Brutalizing a people already deprived of their basic political and human rights is what fueled Hamas’ popularity in the first place.
It is ridiculous to talk about Hamas destroying Israel, as if Hamas could destroy a state with nuclear weapons and one of the most powerful armies in the world. Moreover, there are clearly factions within Hamas, such as the drafters of the Prisoners’ Document, that favor a 2-state solution. Why doesn’t Israel try to negotiate with those groups?
Israel cannot expect to have peace and security as long as it continues to enslave 3.5 million Palestinians.
CMAR II
First of all, letâ??s get the facts straight: The kidnapping was carried out by a dissident faction opposed to the Prisonersâ?? Document, and, until Israel invaded Gaza, the Hamas government was working to get the prisoner released.
A dissident group? Are you referring to the military arm of HAMAS?? Nice smoke and mirror dance, Peter H.
The rest of your points are founded on half-truths and deliberate ignoring of the fact that groups like Hamas (with the complicity of the Palestinians in the West Bank and elsewhere) have opted suicide bombing of civilians as the noblest tactic.
Do you realize Israel has refused to conduct meaningful negotiations with he Palestinians since Sharon came to office in 2001? When you go around saying, â??We have no partner for peaceâ?Â, donâ??t be surprised when it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I realize that Arafat was screwed every meaningful opportunity for peace he ever had placed in front of him. The US Clinton Administration had every motivation to believe that Arafat had changed. Listen to what former Clinton State Department insiders say about him now. Abbas might have been serious about peace, but unfortunately he only lasted just over a year. I am so tired of hearing that the West Bank Palestinians can’t seek peaceful political solutions to their problems because the Israelis are sooo mean. I don’t know if that attitude regards the Palestinians as children or a animals. I prefer to regard them as intelligent people who are adamantly choosing war over peace.
there are clearly factions within Hamas, such as the drafters of the Prisonersâ?? Document, that favor a 2-state solution. Why doesnâ??t Israel try to negotiate with those groups?
Because they don’t have any power. They don’t have the ear of the Hamas leadership or the Palestinian people. In short, they dont’ have the authority to negociate in the name of the West Bank Palestinians.
Palestinians have been living in intolerable conditions long before Hamas came to power.
It’s never been so bad that they couldn’t chronically figure out how to make things worse.
As long as Palestinians are devoid of hope, living under a increasingly barbaric occupation now in its 39th year (and, despite what Israel says, the Gaza Strip is still occupied) then radical Palestinian groups will find a very fertile environment to grow.
If I lived next to a people who praised those who smuggled bombs into my neighborhoods and detonated them, I would insist my government set up roadblocks and walls to keep them out. I sorry that’s so inconvenient for the Palestinians. When they stop supporting monsters, things will change. Its time to stop treating the Palestinians like children. If they want peace, it is in their grasp.
Itâ??s in nobodyâ??s interest to see the Palestinian Authority collapse, least of all Israel.
Somehow I don’t see how it is in Israel’s interest for the Palestinian Authority to thrive under Hamas. They want Israel wiped off the map. Why would Israelis support them in anyway?
It is ridiculous to talk about Hamas destroying Israel, as if Hamas could destroy a state with nuclear weapons and one of the most powerful armies in the world.
Hamas knows it can’t wipe Israel off the map today. That’s why it is asking for a “truce” until such a time in the theoretical future, that they CAN. Consequently, any bargains for peace made while the West Bank is represented by Hamas are not worth the paper they’re written on.
I want to understand one thing, is there any logic to grant a thief the car he stole from its rightful owner? Would that be fair?
Does any person have the right to grant another person property to another third person?
Don’t you see there is no logic what so ever in that? This logic rewards the aggressor and punishes the victim. There is no peace with no justice.
Let me see you apply this ill logic in your own society would you last?
As well applying it on others will not make you last either, as the survival of a state is based on justice it practices.
Or is it the law of the jungle â??Might is right”?
If that is your logic, we Palestinian irrigated this land with our blood through centuries, and our blood will always irrigate it.
You are just a transient like the crusaders. DO you see but their destroyed remains?
Who has right on his side he will never give up. You should learn from history, no matter how many generations you stay in our land (that does not belong to you and which you have stole from its rightful owners), you will leave. I may not see that day in my lifetime, but surely next generations will. And yes we will continue to be defiant no matter what you do to us, kill us, bomb us we will still teach our kids to stand to your tanks, an act of defiance and pride. We fear not death, as your killed ones will be in Hell and our killed ones will be in Heaven. And yes you will see that when itâ??s your turn.
I will tell you what, even if you kill every Palestinian on earth, our land will sprout more Palestinians by the will of God. Let it be a always ringing in your ears “WE FEAR YOU NOT”